Filling in Rollover Pass

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Finn Maccumhail
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by Finn Maccumhail »

vincent wrote:
Rollover killed that because if the increased sediment clouding the water and killing off the seagrasses and changing the salinity so the oyster drill snail could proliferate and decimate the oyster population.
And as everybody knows oysters filter sediment from the water.
I think I saw a spotted owl nesting near the pass...I might need to have some environmentallist look into that.. :D
Nice.

Much like you I don't have a stake in the fight as I haven't fished Rollover in years, mainly because of the trash there, but if there is even a 50/50 chance that closing Rollover could contribute significantly to the repair of East Bay I'm for it. I know it will never be the way it was 100 years ago but if the closure can significantly aid the re-growth of seagrasses and oyster beds which will clear the water and attract fish I'm all for it.

I'm something of a conservationist but like most of the people on here I want to keep places clean and somewhat wild so we'll have those places to enjoy. You know? Got to preserve the habitat for the birds and fish so we'll have birds and fish to catch and hunt.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by mrkm1010 »

I'm with Vicent. Leave the pass open and build a pier too.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by AdventureMan »

If my memory serves me correct. Before Rollover's time my father used to talk about the upper end of east bay getting somewhat stagnet and polluted because of a lack in circulation. Does anyone else remember hearing similar stories?

it's a shame how bad our government is sticking it to us these days.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by NoFshnDaBuket »

If you remeber there were peirs on the gulf side of Bolivar but previous hurricanes took care of that. The same will happen if they build a peir at Rollover.

It is just another way to send the low budget fisherman somewhere else to pay to fish. Even if they built a peir you can almost be certain you would have to pay to fish it.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by smellyhands »

They are tired of spending millions to prevent it from filling up.

So, they are gong to fill it up on purpose, which will cost millions.

Brilliant
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by Finn Maccumhail »

smellyhands wrote:They are tired of spending millions to prevent it from filling up.

So, they are gong to fill it up on purpose, which will cost millions.

Brilliant
So let's say it costs $5MM to close it and it's currently costing them $1MM/year to keep it open, they make back their money in 5 years and don't have to spend it again. Pretty simple really.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by vincent »

they dredge it every 2 years and its 675K not 1M...doesn't really matter they will spend that to take the silt from the Trinity River out of the ICW now that all the current will go thru the jetties...the Trinity contributes probably the same amount of silt to East Bay as Rollover does....it's not about money....it's about MONEY...probably the same company that is opening passes like the Packery and cedar down south is probably the same company that will charge Texas to fill this one in....5M in 4 months...not a bad job...
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Chief Brody
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by Chief Brody »

I hope (naively?) that it's not just about a line item on somebody's budget. "lets see, now that Bolivar is wiped out and there aren't many people living there, we can knock off that $675k thing every other year without too much complaining and spend that money elsewhere...plus, my cousin owns a company that fills in ditches, and he can make sure we get a good price on ....."

I'm not a scientist and I don't play one on TV (that was a lawman with a phobia of water who lived on an island, but thats another story) - but it seems to me that regardless of what your opinion on this that we all agree it will have some effect on East Bay. If the federal government needs a $10m, three year study to determine if damning a creek will hurt the reproductive chances of the spiney striped whipper snail, shouldn't there be some kind of looksee being done before they start shoveling in the dirt?

just curious.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by Night Wing »

Chief Brody wrote:I hope (naively?) that it's not just about a line item on somebody's budget. "lets see, now that Bolivar is wiped out and there aren't many people living there, we can knock off that $675k thing every other year without too much complaining and spend that money elsewhere...plus, my cousin owns a company that fills in ditches, and he can make sure we get a good price on ....."
"Bean Counter" thinking and every company, agency....whatever......does it. Make those bonus checks..........bigger in amounts. :wink:
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by rayb »

[I think I saw a spotted owl nesting near the pass...I might need to have some environmentallist look into that.. :D[/quote]

If he was eating a golden cheek warbler, your set :P
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

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Finn Maccumhail wrote:
smellyhands wrote:They are tired of spending millions to prevent it from filling up.

So, they are gong to fill it up on purpose, which will cost millions.

Brilliant
So let's say it costs $5MM to close it and it's currently costing them $1MM/year to keep it open, they make back their money in 5 years and don't have to spend it again. Pretty simple really.
Well, the simple math isn't lost on me. I was being rather facetious at the irony. The irony being that it's filling up, so they're going to spend money to fill it up. If they don't spend the money.... it will fill up anyway. I'm sure there are logical arguements to filling it up rather than letting nature take it's course, however, on the surface it seems rather silly.

To put it in your terms,

So let's say it costs $5MM to close it and it's currently costing $1MM/year to keep it open. Since keeeping the pass open is a process that occurs often (at the cost of $1MM/year), one can logically assume that if nothing is done, the pass would fill up rather quickly, perhaps in less than 5 years. Thus, better than getting their money back in 5 years, they could avoid spending the money altogether.

Again, not a very serious argument... just having fun with the irony of the situation and that goverment often loves to make a very simple thing complicated to the tune of millions of dollars.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by Ms addicted »

smellyhands wrote: The irony being that it's filling up, so they're going to spend money to fill it up. If they don't spend the money.... it will fill up anyway. I'm sure there are logical arguements to filling it up rather than letting nature take it's course, however, on the surface it seems rather silly.
Wasnt the original plan, when this first came up earlier this year, to let it fill in on its own? Isnt that what they originally said?
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by larry long shadows »

Ms addicted wrote:
smellyhands wrote: The irony being that it's filling up, so they're going to spend money to fill it up. If they don't spend the money.... it will fill up anyway. I'm sure there are logical arguements to filling it up rather than letting nature take it's course, however, on the surface it seems rather silly.
Wasnt the original plan, when this first came up earlier this year, to let it fill in on its own? Isnt that what they originally said?
2x let it happen slowly
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by NoFshnDaBuket »

larry long shadows wrote:
Ms addicted wrote:
smellyhands wrote: The irony being that it's filling up, so they're going to spend money to fill it up. If they don't spend the money.... it will fill up anyway. I'm sure there are logical arguements to filling it up rather than letting nature take it's course, however, on the surface it seems rather silly.
Wasnt the original plan, when this first came up earlier this year, to let it fill in on its own? Isnt that what they originally said?
2x let it happen slowly
I agree, let mother nature fix the problem. If she has been filling it in anyway. If they have to dredge it every couple of years it should not take lone for it to fill in on its own.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by mrkm1010 »

When I see the tide ripping through that pass, I think it would take a pretty good while for it to silt in. I'm with Larry let nature take care ofit self and save the taxpayers some money.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

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Part of the problem this country has is there are far too many "Rollover Passes" out there that we are pumping far too many unjustified dollars into.................Take Port Mansfield.........recently the channel in East Cut sanded in.........it would take millions to dredge out a proper channel..........there is no commerce or industry whatsoever in Port Mansfield. No shrimp boats. No oil related commerce. Just the weekend fishermen and a few guides and some Snowbirds. No objective way in the world to justify paying millions to dredge the channel.........just another Rollover. .......how about Cedar Bayou............no way to justify dredging that thing out and building a Jetty...............just another Rollover....................

A Pharaoh was quite busy building his pyramid ............he asked his wise men to reduce the worlds wisdom into its simplest form............they came back with volumes and volumes of materials...........he said you do not understand I want the wisdom of the world reduced to its simplest form..............finally they came back with one sentence etched on a stone tablet..............'There is no such thing as a free lunch"................I am sorry but I do not want to pay for a Rollover Pass and its on going, unending expense............
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by dwilliams35 »

vincent wrote: Man made structure was the only valid statement in this ...the shallow grass flats 50+ years ago...had more to do with it being 50+ years ago than the influx of saltwater and sediment produced by rollover...and more to do with pesticides and fertilizers...etc...of the modern era...
...
Well, the pesticides and fertilizers theory doesn't hold that much water in my book: remember, back before the pass they had REAL pesticides and herbicides: 245T, DDT, arsenic, etc. etc. etc.: none of this pansy "green" stuff we've got now...... Remember "Silent Spring" was seven years after the pass opened: an increased flow from the pass really should have DECREASED the effect on the location of those factors... I'd certainly lean more toward the flow just stirring up more sediment, cutting down light transmission to the seagrass...
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by dwilliams35 »

smellyhands wrote:
Finn Maccumhail wrote:
smellyhands wrote:They are tired of spending millions to prevent it from filling up.

So, they are gong to fill it up on purpose, which will cost millions.

Brilliant
So let's say it costs $5MM to close it and it's currently costing them $1MM/year to keep it open, they make back their money in 5 years and don't have to spend it again. Pretty simple really.
Well, the simple math isn't lost on me. I was being rather facetious at the irony. The irony being that it's filling up, so they're going to spend money to fill it up. If they don't spend the money.... it will fill up anyway. I'm sure there are logical arguements to filling it up rather than letting nature take it's course, however, on the surface it seems rather silly.

To put it in your terms,

So let's say it costs $5MM to close it and it's currently costing $1MM/year to keep it open. Since keeeping the pass open is a process that occurs often (at the cost of $1MM/year), one can logically assume that if nothing is done, the pass would fill up rather quickly, perhaps in less than 5 years. Thus, better than getting their money back in 5 years, they could avoid spending the money altogether.

Again, not a very serious argument... just having fun with the irony of the situation and that goverment often loves to make a very simple thing complicated to the tune of millions of dollars.
The government can't let ANYTHING happen "as nature would have it": that would be surrendering control, and that just wouldn't do...
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by Finn Maccumhail »

Well, at this point all of our thoughts and concerns one way or the other are pretty much moot. I do believe this is already a done deal and the $$$ has already been appropriated to fill in Rollover Pass. I believe I saw something that they expected to do it sometime in 2010.

I just hope the closure does return East Bay & Rollover Bay to some reasonable approximation of what it was before.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by cadruss2004 »

I know the public ramp on the east side of Gilchrest is still there and being used.
If the conditions were better before the pass was cut, then letting the pass revert and restoring it should help the area improve.
If the area improves then more business should follow, with the right improvements to the region.
I did see an eagle there last time out, those are still endangered and protected...
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by Reelworld »

Sadly, when I think of Rollover Pass, all I recall are drunks and dumbarses throwing trash everywhere. I've caught some decent fish there, so I once took my wife along. She couldn't believe the litter and rudeness of some folks. I took a rake and a garbage bag with me. Not my usual tackle.

One question, though. If they leave a pass from the intracoastal into Rollover Bay, would they still be required to dredge the channel? Seems a lot of cuurent would still move through there.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by Finn Maccumhail »

Reelworld wrote:One question, though. If they leave a pass from the intracoastal into Rollover Bay, would they still be required to dredge the channel? Seems a lot of cuurent would still move through there.
I wouldn't think so. I think the silting in of the ICW that is the issue comes from the beaches on the Gulf side and into the ICW via Rollover.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

Post by Chief Brody »

cadruss2004 wrote:I know the public ramp on the east side of Gilchrest is still there and being used.
If the conditions were better before the pass was cut, then letting the pass revert and restoring it should help the area improve.
If the area improves then more business should follow, with the right improvements to the region.
I did see an eagle there last time out, those are still endangered and protected...
and taste like chicken...
Reelworld wrote:Sadly, when I think of Rollover Pass, all I recall are drunks and dumbarses throwing trash everywhere. I've caught some decent fish there, so I once took my wife along. She couldn't believe the litter and rudeness of some folks. I took a rake and a garbage bag with me. Not my usual tackle.
I was waiting for this one - every time we talk about Rollover someone talks about the drunks etc. I have fished that pass a hundred times before I got my yak - the vast majority of people I saw were regular fishermen and women, and a good percentage had their kids, all there because it was thelast best free spot to fish in Galveston. They threw their trash in the cans or the dumpster (along with the residents!) and policed themselves. The vast majority. Glad you took a rake and garbage bag, I have taken a garbage bag with me just about everywhere I go to fish.

I don't know the science - and I question the logic of spending the money - and I really question doing this without some sort of study to find out the real effects on East Bay - so I am cynical of the decision at this point. But I am absolutely incensed when someone (and that might not be your point reelworld - sorry if I am being overly sensitive) suggests its a good thing to close this last best free spot to fish for those without boats because of the type of people that fish there.

rant done.
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

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TPW built Rollover in about 1955..........As a teenager I fished there often, One time I was there and not catching a thing....none of those around me were catching anything. A guy pulls up in a long black Cadillac, takes a rod out of its trunk baits his hook with a small white jig and immediately begins catching some rather nice flounder. I asked him what he was using for bait and he shows me the jig which was tipped with something. He told me that he was a surgeon and that he specialized in appendix and that he has tipped the hook with a piece of appendix. I told my father and he told me the guys was just pulling my leg...........the next weekend I was there and again no fish. A guy pulls up in a long black Lincoln. He begins catching flounder. I asked him what he was using for bait and he said that he was a kidney surgeon and that he had his jig tipped with a piece of kidney. My father said that the guy was pulling my leg...................the next week again no fish and a guy backs up in a long black Chrysler Imperial. He begins fishing and catching fish. I asked him what kind of surgeon he was and he said he was a Rabbi.........never told my dad about that guy.............
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Re: Filling in Rollover Pass

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OUTSTANDING!
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