Native Ultimate 12 Field Test updated

User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Native Ultimate 12 Field Test updated

Post by Randy »

Well, when I first saw these a year ago, I was not the least bit interested. They were sitting on the rack in front of FTU, and I thought,,, well, it looks cool, but what is it? I didn't give it much thought after that until recently. After looking at the Ultimates closer, they started to appeal to me. First I looked at the 14.5 solo and tandem, both of those have their advantages over each other. Then I looked at the U12.
Image
In liked the big cock pit, it has a ton of space to PMS.. (pack my stuff). The removable seat allows enough room to lay out a sleeping bag, drop a skeeter net over the top. and eliminate the need to pack a tent, for an overniter.
As far as weight, it is much easier to load than my Fish and Dive.
NOTE: this is not a comparsion to a FnD, these two kayaks have a total different use. OK, back to loading, yes, much easier to pick up and car top.

What did it do on the water, well, as they have said, not the least bit tippy. It took the boat wakes, and swells from those arogant, unsafe, DWHUA, 4th of July boat owners today very well. I didn't feel the least bit
compromised, from the boat chop.(with the skirts on)

Then came the deep water re-entry,
I swamped the boat to see if those foam blocks would keep it afloat.Well, it didn't go to the bottom.
Image
Image
Image
Would a bilge pump work on this? NOPE. NO frigging way,,,, OK, plan B,,, swim it to shore.
Image
Image
Well, lets see if having the bow and stern skirt on helps any.
Image
Yep, the skirts definately helped. The shirts kept out just enough water, to finally make some headway using the bilge pump... it took along time but it got there. There was no way to get back in un- assisted or with out an aide. I used a paddle float and was able to get in...only after I pumped and pumped water. The other alternative is a boat over boat rescue.with an assisted re-entry.
Image
Image
The seat, yep, very comfortable. I was able to move the seat and foot rests further back to ajust the trim.

As far as paddling, I was impressed. It moved across the water quite well, with ease. I didn't get to go any distance or paddle it for a long period of time.....yet.....

So far, its a thumbs up...
Image
Last edited by Randy on Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Coastal Country
TKF 6000 Club
TKF 6000 Club
Posts: 6110
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Seat of a Magic 14.5 ~ Santa Fe, TX

Post by Coastal Country »

The ultimates is a great little flats boat, I know Tombo swears by his. Far as the re-entery. looked like it was above the waterline then more water was pushed in on the 2nd photo
User avatar
luna nueva
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1443
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: College Station, TX

Post by luna nueva »

Nice Randy. Did you go new or did you find a used one?
User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Post by Randy »

JavelinaRuss wrote:The ultimates is a great little flats boat, I know Tombo swears by his. Far as the re-entery. looked like it was above the waterline then more water was pushed in on the 2nd photo
Yes sir, with that much water in it, everytime I touched the side, more water went in...

Tomorrow I am gonna take it to the river, to see how it does.
Tombo
Moderator
Posts: 16909
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: Rockport, TX

Post by Tombo »

Have you tried to remove water by rotating the kayak on its axis and let the water "slip out" over the sides? I was taught this method as a boy scout using a canoe.
User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Post by Randy »

Tombo wrote:Have you tried to remove water by rotating the kayak on its axis and let the water "slip out" over the sides? I was taught this method as a boy scout using a canoe.
It was kinda overwelming in the boat chop yesterday,,,
User avatar
QuakKillz
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 9:24 pm
Location: San Angelo

Post by QuakKillz »

I thought your Ultimate may have been like Bills Hobie :lol: ........
User avatar
gonefishin
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1893
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:30 pm
Location: Cypress

Post by gonefishin »

Yep, Those U12's are awesome, I love both of mine 8)
F.O.C.
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2870
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 9:28 pm
Location: trout land

Post by F.O.C. »

QuakKillz wrote:I thought your Ultimate may have been like Bills Hobie :lol: ........
:D
User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Post by Randy »

My plan today was to head over to Navasota and splash the Ultimate in the Brazos....Buttttttttttttttttt...The Baby Momma, asked me to baby sit,,
So instead of watching re-runs of Barney and Dora The Explorer,,, we loaded up the car seat and headed off to Huntsville State Park..
After yesterday, I felt very confident that the Ultimate was up for the task.....
I loaded up my helper and off we went........I really like the room this thing has,,, and as far as a kid seat, The high sides sure are nice.,,,
Image
Image
This was the first chance I have had to paddle it in flat water,,, There was some wind, but it didn't effect anything,,, It paddled really well, with the skeg dropped, it took out some of that bow wiggle.

OK, tomorrow It goes to the Brazos....
User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Post by Randy »

I took it over to the Brazos today to see how it does in swift water...
First I want to point out the padded hand grips.... look at the shorter black pad, towards the seat. The pads wraps around, and is the balancing point to tote it on your shoulder..... This was much easier to carry on my shoulder, than to drag it up the bank. And believe it or not, much easier to get down and back up carrying it, than when I drag the mini's up and down...
Image

How did it do? ,, awsome.. I could definately tell the difference with the skeg down when paddling across the current. with the skeg up, the bow would tend to turn in the current,,, with the skeg down,, it just cut right across...

paddling up river,,,, well the wind was out of the south, so it was kinda like cheating...so today it did very good.

White water, no chance today,,,, the river is way down and the normal line through the rocks has much more rocks exposed, and many more just under the surface.. The rocks I did find, with the pontoon style bottom, would bounce ya up pretty good.
User avatar
RPB
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1459
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:08 am
Location: Burnet/Pasadena, TX

Post by RPB »

Tombo wrote:Have you tried to remove water by rotating the kayak on its axis and let the water "slip out" over the sides? I was taught this method as a boy scout using a canoe.
Been 40 years since I emptied a flooded canoe, but I think I was taught in an advanced water safety instructor course for lifeguards a method of pushing one end down into the water, so the other end went up out of the water, like a see-saw, then flopping it down while shooting it forward, to get about half the water out.

Get away from the sides, if the skirts are off, or if there is only a skirt on one end, stand/sit/put your weight on the end which has no skirt and this pushes the other end of the boat up. By pushing your end down, raise the other end as high as possible, and push forward, flop it down. ... I could show you easier than describe it probably, but I don't have one to demonstrate on. it's kinda like getting way back on a surfboard, leaning back to fall backwards off a surfboard, the board shoots forwards, with its nose up. you use the water as a fulcrum to your see-saw, as the water exits the rear of the boat.


Disclaimer: If it doesn't work for you like it does for me .... hollar for heavier people to come help.
User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Post by Randy »

I took it out today on a paddled down the Brazos,,to Hwy 105,, It handled the w/w just fine. Definately need the skirts for the splash coming right over the bow,,,It manuevered just fine between some tight rocks and even did a donut (not on purpose though)

So far, the only dissapointment is the skeg,,, it stopped working yesterday,,,,,

Notice the dry skirt before going through.......
Image

Yep, the skirts help....
Image
User avatar
fatolbassard
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:28 pm
Location: The Woodlands: Where a TIGHT LINE = A HAPPY CAMPER

Post by fatolbassard »

To keep the skegg working you need to lubricate the cable with wd 40 or something--you can squirt it into the cable where the slide knob is. It lubes up fine and works slicker than a whistle. My skegg was hanging up and hard to raise and lower until I did that.
User avatar
fatolbassard
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:28 pm
Location: The Woodlands: Where a TIGHT LINE = A HAPPY CAMPER

Post by fatolbassard »

Hey Randy,
I also ran pool noodles under the sides of my Ultimate 12 and I am using a Floatation seat cushion tied to the seat. This keep my back from hitting the steel bar on the seat back and likely adds some floatation to the boat. I am going to see if the added pool noodles and seat cushion add floatability to the Native Ultimate 12.
joco
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:25 pm
Contact:

Post by joco »

IF you would help the kayak a bit by doing the same as a canoe..not just flip it..i can flip mine and have almost no water in it..in deap water.mabe no more then3inch off it..better then what i saw here.

sometime yu have to do a little bit more..and that little bit is very easy to do.



joco
User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Post by Randy »

Update:

Well I have had this for 5 1/2 weeks, and 2 of those weeks it was in the shop for warranty work on the skeg. It is now back in the shop for the same issue.

I won't slam the dealer or the Manufacturer, The Dealer has been receptive and is attempting to help me out, but I do not like the email I got from Native Yesterday. My interpratation of a "LIFE TIME WARRANTY" and NATIVE'S are 2 different things. At this point I am sure it is just a mis-understanding.

This is an excellent kayak, with the exception of the skeg, in my opinion.
User avatar
Coastal Country
TKF 6000 Club
TKF 6000 Club
Posts: 6110
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Seat of a Magic 14.5 ~ Santa Fe, TX

Post by Coastal Country »

Newer ones don't have skegs, they went with rudders now 8)
User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Post by Randy »

cuz the skegs have issues........
User avatar
TDD
TKF 4000 Club
TKF 4000 Club
Posts: 4080
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:15 am
Location: Seawall-Galveston Island ... treading water
Contact:

Post by TDD »

inflatable flotation bags under the skirts sure would cut out a lot of that water if you turtled and make it easier to bail out with a small bucket. I use flotation bags in both of my sinks and even under deck in my sots if I plan to go BTB in rough water. You can get them pretty cheap through Seira Trading Post and a few other places on sale on line.
User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Post by Randy »

I have some that I got here locally from AKS,,, the place that was canoe sports,,,, here in Houston, I think they were 39.00 .

I use them in my canoes.....
User avatar
SOLIDEAGLE
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:19 pm
Location: Montgomery, TX

Re: Native Ultimate 12 Field Test updated

Post by SOLIDEAGLE »

I have an Ultimate 12 ordered and it should be delivered this week. I have no experiance in any kayak and I have been reading everything I can find on deepwater reentry in this type of kayak. Thank you for posting this review. I had one idea that I will try when I get mine. If you had 3 or 4 pool noodles stored coiled up in the front or back, could you tie them off to the side you were trying to reenter on? It might give enough floatation to keep the side of the kayak above the waterline as you pull yourself back in. Any thoughts on this?
User avatar
Randy
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2445
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Kayak Featherlite 9.5 Mini-x Predator K140, Percption Swifty,Necky Zoar Angler

Re: Native Ultimate 12 Field Test updated

Post by Randy »

Where abouts are you located, if you are close to Hoston, (North Houston) I can meet ya, and help ya get started...


Randy
User avatar
chrsryse
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:28 pm
Location: Baytown

Re: Native Ultimate 12 Field Test updated

Post by chrsryse »

as a owner of the u14-5 i want to thank you all for the awsome thread. I have been hesitant to take my U away from the flats but feel more confident in approaching deeper waters now that i have read these posts..... futhermore... if anyone wants to sell or trade some goodies for some used bow/stern skirts.... i really want to aquire a set...... thanks fellas......
rickjtx
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:38 pm

Re: Native Ultimate 12 Field Test updated

Post by rickjtx »

Would one of these work???


http://www.offroadtuff.com/super_siphon.php

I've seen them at Academy. Just curious.

Great thread.
Post Reply