Building an Abenaki...

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StuckInTheMud
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

On the previous note, I borrowed my buddy's planer and table saw to get all my strips. We planed down all the boards to the thickness I wanted, and then ripped them into strips.

On another note, I've been busy since my last post. I can see the light at the end of the stripping tunnel......
Those first strips at the edge of the football were a challenge, but got easier as I moved out along the curve.
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This piece was fun. The football didnt come right down to the strip for whatever reason like it did on the other side. The gap was too large (in my opinion) to try and put two separate strips in there and have them meet together. Really, its not that the gap was too large, I just didnt feel like trying to make two strips meet up in a small space. So, I got to work sanding and what not to get a single strip in there, boom!
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And here I'm "practicing" my herringbone pattern. Having never done this, I took a bunch of scrap strips and would fit them in, pop a staple or 2 in them to hold the strip in place and then plane/sand the end to fit them together to see how this would work. Since taking this I've actually placed some of the keeper strips instead of these practice strips. I'll get more pictures soon.
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StuckInTheMud
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

I've been at it pretty good, sanding, cutting and gluing!

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Now, you might say hey, you're almost done stripping! Well, it looks like that here
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but.......just a few more. These tiny pieces are fun to sand and fit!
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Shaping the last piece
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And just like that, half the boat is stripped!!! Time to finish out that other half and get to the grind of sanding....
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StuckInTheMud
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And then, there were none!

Post by StuckInTheMud »

First there was one...
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And then there were none! No strips left!!!!!
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Time for the never ending sanding..... Neighbors should start coming around and checking it out since I'll be wheeling it out of the garage for the first time. No way I'm putting all that dust all over my stuff in my garage.
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StuckInTheMud
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

On a rainy Sunday afternoon here in San Antonio, I got a little more work done. Got both external stems fitted and epoxied onto the boat. Let those dry for a few days and it'll be time to shape them. Guess I'll start sanding this week, I sure picked a great week weather wise to sand. Not supposed to get above about 85 this week, so rough!

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StuckInTheMud
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

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Now that the stems are fixed in place, it was time for her first trip out of the garage to get a little sunshine! (and to meet the sander of course)

My "shop" is my garage, and there's no way in hell I'm going to sand inside my garage and then later have to wipe sawdust off EVERYTHING.

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Did a little sanding, mostly for an hour or so after work. So far its been 3 or 4 sessions of sanding with about 80grit paper.
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Then I got bored and started trying to shape my external stems, or one of them at least. It still needs a lot of work.
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Then I got a wild hair up my well, yea...........I wanted a little show. So I grabbed a bucket of water and an old rag and went to town. I had the biggest, goofiest grin on my face as soon as water hit the boat and couldnt stop grinning
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Still have lots of sanding to do. Sadly, I found a few spots I'm not happy with. I tried filling gaps with wood glue, and they turned pretty white when everything else was looking pretty and cedar colored. I presume they'll be this color when I put down the glass and epoxy, which has my wheels turning on what to do about it.
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bowgarguide
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by bowgarguide »

Use some glass bubbles or wheat flour mix with epoxy then it will be white ,then start mixing in wood flour to darken it to the color that matches your cedar
Boat is looking great and yes it will be close to the color it is wet out.
Ron
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StuckInTheMud
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

Ron, thanks for the tips. I was actually referring to my unfortunate white "glue lines" as being that color when the boat is glassed. I know the wood will be pretty close to this color. I just presume the areas where I tried filling the gaps with wood glue (seems to be a rookie mistake right now) will probably stay white, just as they look when I wet the boat with just water. Here's what I'm referring to

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bowgarguide
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by bowgarguide »

yea they will , you can scrap them out and go back with the darker epoxy mix.
Ron
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by Dogpaddlin »

Stuck,

I tried forcing glue into a gap on my first boat and it stuck out like a sore thumb. I would scrape it out gently with a razor blade (or gently mash it down below the surface) and go back with some sandable woodfiller. I used Durham's Water Putty and then used a colored pencil to darken it up after dried. I think if I were going to do it again I might try mixing in some water based paint instead of the colored pencil.

Just my two cents.

Boat is loking GREAT by the way.

Toby
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

Ok, so I worked through the setbacks I gave myself by squeezing wood glue into a few gaps between strips. Anyone thinking about building a stripper but never has, DONT DO THAT. Wood glue sticks out like a sore thumb when the boat is wet and "wood glue white" in contrast to the nice pretty cedar color is not the contrast you're looking for.

Anywho, I finally got things to comfortable "final" point for me so the glassing process begins. One good lesson learned. If you're not sure how long something might take, make sure you have more time available than you think you'll need. Case in point. Went to put down the epoxy after work with my friend thinking it wouldnt take that long. Sure enough, it got dark before we finished so there was a slight sense of rushed panic since we were running out of light. Didnt really affect things thankfully, but just something to keep in mind when I go to glass the inside. Definitely saving that for a weekend.

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I know the last picture looks like there are some air bubbles up on top there, its just reflection of the light. Dont worry :mrgreen:
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StuckInTheMud
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

Well, after some mis-steps with my glass while sanding and having my glass come off in 2 places, I finally got the outside of the hull ready enough to take her off the forms. Only thing I can figure with my small problems of glass/epoxy, I tried applying the epoxy after work with a friend. Now that its winter, the afternoons are way too short and we ran out of daylight. As it was getting darker we sort of started rushing, and i think this caused my two spots to have inadequate epoxy coverage over the glass. Thus, when sanding i found a few air bubble spots and unfortunately those two areas had the glass come off in about a 5 inch circle :( I sanded the areas back down to the wood and placed a new piece of glass over it, epoxied it back in and was back to business. Here we go with the fun part

Some forms are missing!
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ready...................................................................................
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Time to get to work on the inside. After a quick attempt, I realized the block plane wasnt going to do much good on the inside. Thus, my night is on hold for working tonight.
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by Dogpaddlin »

Stuck,

The boat is looking great! It won't be long and she will be ready for the water.

FYI, now would be a REALLY good time to get one of those scrapers I mentioned. You will be amazed how well it smoothes out uneven strips and knocks down the rough edges of the fiberglass. It seems like a very barbaric way of removing material, but if you keep steady pressure on the head to prevent "chatter" it will leave a pretty smooth surface. Here is a pic of the one I used, they sell them at Sears but I was not able to find a direct link. I can't tell you how much time it saved me.

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StuckInTheMud
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

Where do you get the curved blade from? I got a scraper, but its kind of a challenge to use with that nice straight edge, trying to use it in a concave surface, haha! I got it at lowes, maybe i'll have to go look at home depot. Its a carbide, pretty stout little one.
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by Dogpaddlin »

Stuck,

You have ruined my morning!!! The one I used was a Craftsman and actually belonged to my old boss (which means I no longer have access to it). They used to carry them at the Sears located in the Woodlands, I have spent the morning trying to find them online to no avail. MAN I WISH I HAD BOUGHT THE SET WHEN I HAD THE CHANCE!!!! CLC also used to carry a version called the ProPrep Scraper but they don't have them on their website either. Further research indicates the company that actually manufactured them went out of business in 2010.

I would check your local Sears before giving up, that really was an EXCELLENT tool, if they have two of them buy them both and I will come take the second off your hands :D It came in a set, had a total of six blades, all different shapes. I believe it was labeled a molding scraper.

If that does not work, here is another option:

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/products/b ... r-set.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/202002 ... set-4.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Toby
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StuckInTheMud
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

Whoa whoa, I didnt do anything, haha.

I have a scraper already on hand, so I'm just hunting for a curved blade for it. I'll search the googles tonight and see what I come up with. Sorry to ruin your morning, hope it got better 8)
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

Now for a serious question, or two.

What do you do with gaps running along the inside? I didnt use bead and cove, so there are a few gaps where I didnt get just the right angle with the hand plane when fitting strips together on the forms. I dont have a picture to give a nice visual of what I'm talking about, but are these ok to fill with epoxy as I'm spreading the stuff around on the glass? If not, I have plenty of cedar saw dust that I could mix with epoxy and hopefully get a decent color match.

Next question. My internal stems kind of have some glue residue. The scraper is too big to get into that space, so any tips on cleaning up the glue down in that nice snug space? I'm going to have a small deck over each end so doesnt need to be as pretty as the rest of the inside of the boat, but I still want to get it cleaned up.

Last one. I knew it would turn out this way, with the internal stem kind of sticking up above the rest of the wood. My question, do you lay the glass over that stem, or do you cut it and let the glass lay to either side (leaving the stem sticking up)? I notice a few of yall here have built canoes SANS internal stem, so this question may fall on deaf ears. Looking through other builds/blogs, some look like the glass is cut and just layed to either side of the stem. Others, they dont really show or describe this part of glassing the inside.

Ok, go...........
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by Dogpaddlin »

StuckInTheMud wrote:Now for a serious question, or two.

What do you do with gaps running along the inside? I didnt use bead and cove, so there are a few gaps where I didnt get just the right angle with the hand plane when fitting strips together on the forms. I dont have a picture to give a nice visual of what I'm talking about, but are these ok to fill with epoxy as I'm spreading the stuff around on the glass? If not, I have plenty of cedar saw dust that I could mix with epoxy and hopefully get a decent color match.
Treat them just like the gaps on the outside. Try to swell it with hot water first, then I would use some type of woodfiller like Durhams. You can use goopie made from your sawdust but it still won't be an exact match. If you look cloesly at the pic I attached earlier, right about where the head of the scraper is located is a section I used goopie to level. I really missed the mark when I was trying to do my hering bone pattern and had a VERY uneven seam right down the center of the boat. I used goopie for this since it was such a large area. For filling inbetween strips I would use the Durhams. The main benefit to the Durhams is weight, but it is also MUCH easier to sand. I really think if you got some water based paint you could play with the Durhams and come up with a mixture that would blend with your strips much better than the goopie. Just my $0.02
StuckInTheMud wrote:Next question. My internal stems kind of have some glue residue. The scraper is too big to get into that space, so any tips on cleaning up the glue down in that nice snug space? I'm going to have a small deck over each end so doesnt need to be as pretty as the rest of the inside of the boat, but I still want to get it cleaned up
Here agian, I really wish you could find the scraper set I referenced earlier. It came with six blades/heads that would really get into some tight spaces. I found a picture of the set that sold on ebay, here is a link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... rid=229466" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your last question I can't offer any help, my Merlin didn't have internal stems.
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by Dogpaddlin »

Stuck,

Sorry to keep :horse: , but I stumbled on these this afternoon. You may have moved beyond this stage already, but I thought I would post these just in case. Hope they help. Keep in mind, you can always grind these blades into another shape, and probably should grind the points off some of them (i.e. the tear shaped one) to keep from inadvertently gouging the cedar.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001RQAVZK/ref ... B001RQAVZK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/Allway-Tools-Cont ... pd_cp_hi_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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StuckInTheMud
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

Yea, I've kind of moved past that stage. I still havent glassed the inside yet, but thats planned for this weekend. This whole dark real early thing sucks....
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

Well, since my last post I've been busy, but then again my last post was a while ago so busy is a relative term. Anywho, got the inside glassed, a second layer put down over the high traffic area, and then a little more epoxy put down on the inside. Still a few more small areas I need to put down epoxy to fill in the weave of the glass, but i moved on to working on the gunnels. I wanted the inwales scuppered, and I wanted to be hard headed and do it with one piece of wood. Got together with a friend and brainstormed, and that combined with some web searching we came up with/borrowed an idea for a jig. From there, I got to routing. Scary stuff!

Guess I can show the boat first with the inside glassed....
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Next up is sanding the edges to make em nice and roundy looking, figuring out a nice taper to the ends, sealing them up BEFORE attaching them, blah blah blah. I'm tapering the ends because i want them to go between the cedar and the deck. So, the work continues, but its still fun!
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by Dogpaddlin »

Lookin good man!!! You will be done before you know it, keep the good work! :clap:

P.S. Playing with a router is FUN!!!
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by Pogo »

Howdy fellers -- been a while since I visited here, good to see you guys!

Toby's right, routers are FUN man, and bet you're agreeing by now...? Whatever, you picked a good option for making the scuppers, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually less work than gluing the stand-offs. But now that you got 'em, use a 1/8" round-over bit on the router to make short work (everything's relative) of getting the scuppers all roundy looking, and more like a 1/4" or 3/8" round-over for the inwale face.

If/when you become a big time router fan, think about scoring a laminate trimmer for finer work; it's like a miniature router and takes 1/4" shank bits. Very light and easy to use.

We need to get together for the launch, whaddya think Toby? 8)
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by Dogpaddlin »

Pogo wrote:We need to get together for the launch, whaddya think Toby? 8)
I'm game, lots of good water for paddling between Austin, San Antonio, and Texas City!

Stuck,

How are you planning on attaching the gunnels? Have you figured out your seating arrangement?
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by StuckInTheMud »

The router was definitely fun, but scary for pretty much a first timer. Things were going fine until about 3/4 of the way through the first inwale and I got a little greedy with the thing. Sadly, the bit grabbed a bunch and broke my piece. It was fairly clean, so i glued and clamped it and it looks like it should be fine with a little wood filler and sanding. I'm planning to proceed like that anyway....

Naturally, when doing the second inwale I was way more cautious and it went off fine without any incidents! Made me a little more mad at myself for getting greedy on the first one, but I chalked it up to inexperience.

I started sanding by hand actually, rounding off the inside edges on everything because I was nervous about getting a router in there after breaking the first piece. My buddy does have a small hand router that I'll probably get to this weekend. Thanks for the recommendations on round over bit sizes! I wasnt really sure what size I would be needing. I'm going to round over the top and bottom edges of both the inwale and the outwales, keep those nice curves going all over the boat, haha.

As far as attaching them, I think I'm going to put on the inwale with thickened epoxy. For my decks, I want to have them thick enough to put a screw through. I figure 4 screws (2 port side, 2 stbd side) on each end going through the hull and into the inwale/deck.

For the outwale, I'm probably going to epoxy them on as well. I've read the ongoing debates between putting them on with thickened epoxy vs screwing them on for easier removal later, etc. Basically I've been reading various opinions and gathering all that up into my noggin.
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Re: Building an Abenaki...

Post by Pogo »

Man, you sound like a natural! 8) The two most common mistakes people make with routers is failing to take into account direction of bit rotation, and "getting greedy", or trying to hog out too much in a single pass. Natural woodworkers discover both quickly, as you did, but most need to have it pointed out (I teach a lot of apprentices in a cabinet shop).

Fixing the F-U was right on too. First Rule of Woodworking: you'll NEVER stop F'ing up..... :roll:

Second First Rule of Woodworking: Curves are SEXY, square edges are brutally amateurish. In professional shops, round-overs are used on almost everything (that doesn't get something more decorative), and hard edges are seldom, if ever, left exposed .... and dressing edges is just too easy for anyone not to. And just to be clear, I was recommending the 1/8" round over for the actual multitudinous scupper slots, and 1/4" for the inwale inner edges. Use the round overs on pieces of scrap to see what looks best to YOUR eye.

Screwing or gluing: 50% or 1/2. Either works. I blind-screwed outwale into inwale except for the seat area, where I used 6-32 machine screws and nuts. All bronze. Remember, is wood screws don't hold, they're easy to replace with something more substantial.
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