TexasKayakFisherman.com est. 2000

Kayak fishing the Lone Star State...


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By StuckInTheMud
#2019998
One step forward, 1.5 steps backward. I guess life does that sometimes.

Had enough of a break between exams so I tinkered with the seats this afternoon. The back one is in temporarily, and I say that only because I don't have the spacer blocks in there yet. I want to test out this seat height before cutting blocks.

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Now for the steps backwards :(
I went and got new screws, after the brass ones sheared off. In attempting to do what Bowgarguide suggested, I never could get enough purchase for a flathead screwdriver to try and back out the remaining screw and I kept breaking the thin brass. Since I was wearing away metal ANYWAY using the dremel, I just kept going and dremeled out the whole screw on each piece of wood. New screws today, I drilled a slightly larger pilot hole, and went at it. First one went 99% of the way in, and then sheared off. This one did it slightly different than the brass ones, as it was deep enough to hold both sticks together. As we stand now, its still there and I may leave it.

The bad news. I tried the next one. Drilled the pilot hole in both pieces, measuring my depth to make sure I didn't go all the way through. Put in the screw, and I'm 95% buried on this one and crack, the seat frame cracks on me. My heart sank.
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I'm taking a mental break from it, trying to figure out how to get around this misstep. The frame on this seat isn't supporting the weight of the whole seat in the manner of the back seat (a bolt through each corner of the frame). That being said, this may not be as big of an issue as I feel. The seat will be resting on the two outer-most pieces as you can see, so the screws are really to just hold it there in place. I could maybe pry the crack open so slightly and get some wood glue down in there, then clamp it.

Considering that a bolt won't be hanging from that spot, how do you guys feel about my idea? As far as continuing, the only thing I can figure to make this not happen is to go get some thinner diameter wood screws. I'm trying to take joy in the small victory of the back seat working out just fine, but this issue is trying to overshadow it and make me bummed out!
By Dogpaddlin
#2020254
Since Pogo is evidently asleep at the wheel somewhere, I'll suggest bronze instead of brass. I would even consider bolts instead of screws. I don't see why your idea or Zeke's won't work.
By Dogpaddlin
#2020267
That sucks. I used bronze for all my gunnels and didn't have any issues. Could you drill it out and just run a screw all the way through and put a nut on the bottom? You could also fill your previously drilled holes with goupie and then re-drill.
User avatar
By Pogo
#2020283
Sorry, had to run to the outhouse, I'm back now. :oops:

Bronze should be stronger than brass ... where are you getting this hardware of yours, is what I begin to wonder (no not the local hardware store OMG). And why are you futzing with either for something as critical as seat mounting? I'd be using nothing less than top quality stainless steel, particularly if I were going to hang a seat, as opposed to support it from below.

Disclaimer: I know very little about traditionally styled hanging seats, just no experience with 'em to speak of.

For holes that need replacing, filling with thickened epoxy and re-drilling is one option; another is drilling an oversize hole and stuffing a piece of dowel in it with plenty of waterproof wood glue if it's a precise fit, and only slightly thickened epoxy if not so tight, loose fits being not recommended. If the piece has split, fix it before addressing the hole. Coax waterproof wood glue deep into the splits using an acid brush* dipped in water to thin the glue and help it find its way into the depths of the splitting, then clamp it up overnight. Err on the side of too much glue, and mop up excess with a wet rag. When re-drilling the hole, might not be a bad idea to leave a clamp on while drilling to prevent splitting, especially if the hole is very near the end. It's also good practice to step up drill sizes instead of using one large bit if it's to be a good size hole.

* Small disposable paintbrush with metal handle.
User avatar
By StuckInTheMud
#2020290
I completely misread what Dogpaddlin wrote, in my defense I had not consumed any coffee yet when I read his response (and posted mine) this morning. I used brass, not bronze. I've had my coffee now! All good suggestions on repair, and i greatly appreciate the wisdom! it'll probably be Friday before I get back to it, as I've got an exam that day so Friday afternoon I'm free for a week (spring break! I love being back in school again, haha). Will update again once I've made progress. Thanks again guys!
User avatar
By Pogo
#2020304
Brass = Never use except for purely decorative stuff because it's too weak for much else.

Bronze = What you want to use instead for corrosion-free boat building fasteners.

Stainless Steel = Same as Bronze, only stronger. Strongest choice of all, in fact.

Seats require strongest option, seat failure not fun.
By Dogpaddlin
#2020588
Pogo wrote:seat failure not fun.

I can testify to this, in fact I believe Pogo was present when the seat bracket on my Merlin snapped in half :oops:

If I'm reading your post correctly, the joint in question is not structural so bronze would work.
User avatar
By Pogo
#2020619
I got started composing a smartypants remark about that, Toby, but stopped myself because it really wasn't funny (almost was, gotta stop myself from giggling). Also because you didn't go swimming, which showed epic grace & talent since seat failures in canoes are a top way to end up overboard. You did a valiant job of living through that disaster.
User avatar
By StuckInTheMud
#2024868
Well, I have to say its been a fun time. Long time (much longer than I anticipated), but a fun time for sure. I got my seat issues ironed out (I hope) and installed the front seat today. That means that I'm sort of "done"! Quotation marks in there because I still need to craft up some spacers to cover up my carriage bolts.

Of course, I had to check the weight. Using a bathroom scale, so I don't know the accuracy there, but she came in at 57 pounds. Pretty heavy I know, but for my first boat it'll do. I know there are plenty of ways and places on the boat I could have done something different to shave weight, but for your first one you just gotta get in there and do it. The follow-on boats can have their "weight issues", hahaha.

No test paddle yet. I just got the seat in this afternoon and still had my kayaks in the back of the truck from a few trips out and around during spring break. School starts back up again tomorrow, so I'll have to find a hole in my schedule that doesn't require studying (not very likely though) and see when I can go plop her in some water around here. I'm pretty dang excited for multiple reasons: I get to finally paddle this beauty, I get my garage space back, and I get to make a new rack to hold my "fleet". 2 kayaks, a pirogue, and now a canoe. Gotta make something different than the wall rack I had to hold the other 3 boats….

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User avatar
By StuckInTheMud
#2026863
I totally forgot to ask this question in my last post. So, now that i have this fancy pretty boat, how the heck do I transport this thing? I'm sure as heck not going to do it like the kayaks, just throwing it into the back of my truck (sitting on the bed unprotected) with the back end sitting on the bed extender.

I'm thinking of doing a modified version of that, a towel or foam bumper over the bow (with it pressed up against the front of the bed), a pad somewhere under the hull to keep the boat off the actual floor of the bed (maybe 2 actually) and then maybe a strap with a towel over it to snug her down on the bed extender. I do have a pool noodle on the bed extender, but I don't trust that thing up against the skin of a fresh new boat.

So, there's no way I'm springing for a fancy truck rack or anything because I just don't have the money for that (for the next few years). Any tips or suggestions on my current plan are more than welcome. One reason I love the internet, collective brain power right at my fingertips!
By Dogpaddlin
#2026919
Google "2X4 truck canoe rack". I used something similar the first few years for transporting my Merlin. I actually used the super cheap 2X2 lumber to build mine, I think I had less than $25 in the whole thing. It worked fine but you need to make sure you do a good job securing it to the bed of the truck. Once I looked back and could see the whole thing lift up about 3" while driving down the interstate, talk about a panic attack!!!

All that being said, when you can afford a good rack it is worth the money. That is coming from one of the most frugal people ou ell ever meet.
User avatar
By StuckInTheMud
#2042465
Well the day finally arrived! Last weekend, for mother's day, my parents came to San Antonio and wanted to go out paddling. With 2 kayaks and 3 people, that wasn't going to add up so the canoe got called into action. The load into the truck was way less than ideal, but plenty of padding in any spot that might rub helped to keep unnecessary scratches off the boat for now. Battle scratches are a whole other ball game, those are always allowed!

Loaded up and headed up to Rebecca creek for a short paddle. We were on a schedule since we were playing golf later that day, so I wanted somewhere that we could put in, paddle around, and come back to without being worried about time. Everything seemed to be great! I didn't really test stability by leaning way out, but I never felt tippy or un-balanced. I did notice something that I'm concerned about. I always wondered if my seat frames were too thin, like I skimped on the thickness of the wood. Mom was in the front seat, and I noticed the frame flexing. Always a touchy subject with the ladies, but my mom isn't over-weight by any stretch so I realized I may have a problem on my hands with that front seat. Since the span side-to-side is longer up front than that for the back seat, I guess it allows more flex in the seat frame, so I'm still nervous that its going to break. Guess I'll have to keep the weight limit down up front, only cute girls get to ride up there I guess!! :lol:

I took it out for a minute on my own, sitting in the back. I know thats not how you paddle a tandem canoe solo, but I did it anyhow. I should have just kneeled up forward a little more. I was too excited to just be paddling around!

Not really sure what else to say, its so crazy to look at pictures of her actually out on the water. So much time spend building and its finally a paddling machine! Now that I'm off for summer, and I think I'm happy with the seat height I'll go ahead and make some spacers to hide my carriage bolts. Thanks for all the advice on here and support/encouragement. Good luck to the rest of the builders out there!

Here she is in the water
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What better liquid to christen her with!!
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The launch!
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Guess I displace a little more water than mom, aft end of the boat is a little lower than the bow
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User avatar
By Pogo
#2042475
SWEET -- Congrats!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) <--- Rates 5 COOL!s

Most excellent choice of christening beverage too, what class, what style!

Looks like the front seat needs to go forward a little to balance, just a thought if it is at all possible (would shorten the span, too). Also, for solo paddling consider sitting on the front seat facing aft and paddling the boat "backwards", which will be fine if it's a symmetrical hull. If not, it may still be better to paddle the hull backward and be closer to balance than go forward with the bow flopping around in the air. In any case, being a bit out of balance is a rather fine point, actually, whereas a beginning canoeist may be totally unbothered by it. So take my thoughts for what they're worth (approx. $0.02 USD).
By Dogpaddlin
#2042501
Good stuff!!!

You will want to address the seat sooner rather than later, I speak from experience... One of the things I considered was putting some strips of fiberglass on the bottom part of the seat, just a thought.
User avatar
By Birke
#2042957
Nice job dude!

With that boat, if you sit in the front seat and turn it around, it'll ride like this:

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You can rail corners and lean it like this without dumping it:

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I have found, since I can't paddle well, that when running solo I use the Greenland paddle instead and paddle like a kayak. Also adding a cooler full of beer (quality beer like the stuff you have, not Bud Light) in the front helps. When you're done with the beer, fill the empty with lake water and put it back in the cooler to maintain trim.....
User avatar
By StuckInTheMud
#2046115
Thanks for the kind words! I'm just excited that I finally got it out on the water! Moving the seat forward I guess would just entail drilling some new holes, and then filling the current ones I guess with epoxy or something? Capping the hole off with a wood plug of course! I'm glad you guys mentioned the whole sitting in the front seat (but backwards) when paddling solo. I actually was thinking that as I paddled away from the shore. "I've done this canoe thing before, I know better than to sit in the rear seat when paddling alone!" haha. Basically, my exact internal monologue as I pushed off for the first time.
User avatar
By Pogo
#2046133
Poking small dowel rod into the old screw holes with wood glue would be much better than filling them with epoxy. Best bet is to re-drill the holes with appropriate size bit for next larger dowel rod so that you gotta tap the rod in gently with a mallet (yes, you may use a hammer - we works with we has) and your waterproof wood glue.
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