TNT-Tips n' Tactics: Topic 7: First Aid Kit and Skills

Beve · Post by **Beve** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:57 pm

We have hit this subject from time to time but would like to see everybody chime in collectively---I think we could put together some great info. Some folks have first aid kits for day use, multi-day excursions, individual, groups etc. Let's hear them all.

But just as important you have to when and how with first aid.....what skills do you find necessary?

I'll post my thoughts later.

Discuss.

Puck · Post by **Puck** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:00 pm

For us there are a few.

1. Hook removal!
2. Sting ray puncture
3. Sunburn
4. Dehydration
5. CPR
6. Stop the bleeding, and properly dress a wound

I'm sure I'm missing a few.

Puck

Tradercj · Post by **Tradercj** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:14 pm

Black Widow Spider

Is it just me or others encountering this eight legged passenger.
I guess I have made about 8 or 10 trips this year and have found
Black Widows on two. That seems high to me. I like to fish pads
and vegetation but I have never associated the Widow with water.
One was found at the landing at Lake Raven and one when loading
the yak at Lake Fairfield.

Here is an recomendation if bitten.

First Aid
If bitten, remain calm, and immediately seek medical attention
(contact your physician, hospital and/or poison control center).
Apply an ice pack directly to the bite area to relieve swelling and pain.
Collect the spider (even a mangled specimen has diagnostic value),
if possible, for positive identification by a spider expert. A plastic bag,
small jar, or pill vial is useful and no preservative is necessary, but
rubbing alcohol helps to preserve the spider.

A hospital stay may be recommended, particularly for those with a heart
condition or with health problems. A physician may administer a specific
antivenin to counteract the venom or calcium gluconate to relieve pain.

double dip · Post by **double dip** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:43 pm

How about a first aid chart to put in the kit

CityByTheSeaCitizen · Post by **CityByTheSeaCitizen** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:28 am

Here are a few things I have learned:

1) Let an infectious snake bite bleed. Screw your ethics, and kill the snake to take it with you. If it was a rattle snake it, eat it.

2) Practice hook removal before needing it. Try some softer woods or plasit covered foam. Practice like you are doing it to yourself, also.

3) Peeing on yourself when you get stung by jellyfish not only makes you look funny, but it also does not work.

4) A dead mangrove snapper can still open his mouth and latch on to the palm of your hand. Watch out cleaning fish with teeth.

5) Keep something reflective in your yak safety kit. A CD works well.

6) Picking up baby alligators by the tail is never a good idea. They are flexible enough to do a 180 and bite your palm. Momma will also not like your behavior, and believe me, she is watching.

7) A dryer sheet flapping out of the back of your hat, will repel mosquitos. I learned this one on TKF, and it really works.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:47 am

CityByTheSeaCitizen wrote: Peeing on yourself when you get stung by jellyfish not only makes you look funny, but it also does not work.

...but it sure feels good in the winter

On a more serious note, the worst injury me or mine has encountered while fishing in the past few years was when Seashell got about 50-60 ant stings on her hand. Beve sent me some bleach wipes to pack in my first aid kit to help neutralize the formic acid. I also (at his suggestion) packed some Benadryl to help ease swelling and allergic reaction, and some anti-itch cream.

Kim

TexasZeke · Post by **TexasZeke** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:50 am

3) Peeing on yourself when you get stung by jellyfish not only makes you look funny, but it also does not work.

not to mention it could be quite a challenge, depending on where you got stung...hehehe....speaking solely for myself mind you, not implying that anybody else might be challenged...hehehe

Uncle Buss · Post by **Uncle Buss** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:01 pm

I would have to say that my main two concerns are these:

1) Snake Bite--- how to treat, poisonous, or not. I've heard to lacerate and turnicate it, not to, get someone to suck the poison out, etc. Is there a correct way? Mainly this applies to the poisonous bites......??

2) Hook removal---I've had some close calls, but never deep enough to be in a bind. What are the proper techniques?

***Fortunately, I have never been snake bitten, or hooked myself deep, but these are my main two "uh-oh"s when out in the natural world.***

CityByTheSeaCitizen · Post by **CityByTheSeaCitizen** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:08 pm

You want to cut the area you got bit?

I would remove tight clothing on that limb, and let it bleed for a good 10 minutes. If it is on an arm or a leg, I would tie a towel above the cut, to slow circulation.

Always immobalize the limb and keep it lower than your heart. Much lower if possible.

Expect tons of swelling.

call 911.

CityByTheSeaCitizen · Post by **CityByTheSeaCitizen** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:11 pm

yakfisher wrote:
2) Hook removal---I've had some close calls, but never deep enough to be in a bind. What are the proper techniques?

Loop line around bend in hook. Press down on shank or eye. Jerk the line with bad intentions, and you don't want to have to jerk it twice. That didn't come out right.

I have never had a hook in myself, but I have removed two from friends.

W5CDS · Post by **W5CDS** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:47 pm

yakfisher wrote:I would have to say that my main two concerns are these:

1) Snake Bite--- how to treat, poisonous, or not. I've heard to lacerate and turnicate it, not to, get someone to suck the poison out, etc. Is there a correct way? Mainly this applies to the poisonous bites......??[/i]

Snake bite: do NOT cut - do NOT use tourniquet. Pack in ice, and call 911.
btw, don't ever use a tourniquet on any body part you're not willing to lose.

Also, for the jelly sting, use meat tenderizer mixed with saltwater to make a paste. Use the paste liberally, and cover with bandage (just to keep the poultice in place). Same thing for coral cuts (especially fire coral - I know this one from experience).

No, I'm not a doctor and I never played one on TV. Advice from EMT.

DarrellS · Post by **DarrellS** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:23 pm

tourniquet only as a last resort (such as arterial bleeding) as a life saving (not limb saving) effort.

People who camp and or paddle any distance from professional help should take a CPR and basic first aid course. Both of these are usually available through your local Red Cross office. If you or a buddy has a incapaciating illness or injury it's going to be hard to paddle him and you out. You need to be able to handle the situation until help arrives. Don't rely on your cell phones either alot of places have iffy or no reception. I always carry one of my hand held two radios with me ( I have my Ham license) that has numerous frequecy's programmed in it. As a side side note, if no other communication is available in a life threating situation you may use any frequency available. Amateur,police or fire.

For the guys here in central Texas I can set up a first aid class some weekend at my local Fire station. Free or minimal charge. If ya'll wanted to make it a two day class we could have a CPR class also.

Hambone911 · Post by **Hambone911** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:21 am

The one thing you can not put in a kit is knowledge. Your first aid kit may be packed with great tools, and they are useless if you do not know how to use them. As the Boy Scouts taught many of us, "Be Prepared!" The internet is loaded with good articles on the "how to's" of first aid. REI, Bass Pro, and other retailers have articles, as well as Boy Scouts, Red Cross, and other sites. When preparing a kit, think about what you may encounter as opposed to what gear to pack. A minor cut, rash or small hook impalement in the hand can be an urgent situation and cause some grief, but a major emergency is one that can end up fatal for you or your party. Many of us kayak because of the ability to access areas that are remote and inaccessible to others. That puts the burden upon us to be more prepared than the public at large. If you venture into the back country, do not rely on 911 and cell phone coverage to bail you out of a serious predicament.

At a minimum, I suggest anyone in the wilderness be prepared to handle these emergencies:

Heat injuries - Drinking water is essential, it can be used to wash a cut as well.
Snake bites - Learn how to treat them (hint: the doctor said "you are gonna die!")
Insect bites - Repellant and treatment. You can have an allergic reaction to bees, ants, and others even if you never have before.
Lacerations - Know how to stop bleeding. Pressure dressings are the gold standard here. Practice applying one to your dominant arm.
Orthopedic injuries - Learn how to splint a long bone, and how to improvise a splint, if necessary. "Ladder splints" are effective and compact.
Sunscreen - an ounce of prevention ... A major sunburn can weaken a person and lead to major problems.
Prescription medications - if you need them, have them.
Emergency food supply - a few power bars are a great idea just in case the worst occurs.
Lighter, moisture proof matches, or fire starter - being stranded and cold can be deadly.

A supply of band aids and other items found in a commercial kit are also necessary. Check your kit twice a year for expiring items and restock as needed.
A good article for first timers (or a refresher for veteran outdoorsmen) can be found here. The Wikipedia "Wilderness First Aid" article also has some good information.

Shamus · Post by **Shamus** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:11 pm

Strider, my wife had a run in with some fire ants this last summer. I had my first aid kit with me and it contained some Povidone-iodine wipes. I think I'm reading the crumpled up pack right. Worked really fast and very good. I need to find some and replace the ones that got used on that trip. The burning went away almost imediately and the little blisters were gone by that night. A few days later and you couldn't tell my wife had walked out of the shower and right into a hill of fire ants, lol. One of the best and worst camping trips I've ever been on.

Beve · Post by **Beve** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:06 pm

I forgot I hadn't posted my stuff yet.....

Currently my first aid is under revision, but I have one for short trips and I bulk it up for group trips. All inside a waterproof container or bag.

I break it up into OTC meds, Rx meds, and topical bandaging/splints/etc.

Topical Treatment

wound dressing
Spenco 2nd skin (blisters)
Gauze
Band-aids (waterproof, butterflies, small and large)
Tape
Finger and arm splints (I am going to order SAM splints to replace these)
Tegaderm
Sterile eye wash (can be used to wash wounds too)
betadine
triple antibiotic ointment
hydrocortisone
sting-kill swabs
Oil of clove (for toothaches)
Sawyer extractor (for insect or snakebites)
sutures and needle
safety pins
tweezers
Bleach wipes
triangle bandage
water treatment tablets
nasal airway (for unconscious victim)

OTC Meds
Tylenol (acetametaphen)
Advil (ibuprofen)
Benadryl (diphenhyramine)
Pepto tablets
Immodium (loperamide)
Tagamet or Pepcid
Prilosec (for me)

Rx Meds
Epi-pen
Any daily meds to last through trip plus another 3 days
If one a very remote trip some antibiotics that would cover 2-3 days if injured and there is potential injury would be contaminated (river water)
Also consider Rx strength painkillers or nausea meds

A lot of good advice about skills and not panicking posted above. First-Aid training is a must. I aslo recommend reading some wilderness first aid or survival material. One book I highly suggest is
Wilderness Medicine William W. Forgey, MD

I strictly posted medical supplies. I'll do another thread with survival stuff, even though a lot of first aid and survival stuff goes hand-in-hand.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:42 pm

Beve, thanks a lot for posting your recommendations. I know you are a medical professional. Your info is invaluable.

Kim

Barnacle Bill · Post by **Barnacle Bill** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:09 pm

In the Army I was cross trained as a medic. Most of us had a specialty or two but we were all cross trained in all areas.

I've handled everything from gunshots, shrapnel wounds, car wreck injuries, blunt force trauma, cutting/slicing/stab wounds, yada yada yada.

My first aid kit use to include everything up to and including IV solutions such as Ringers and Saline solutions with an assortment of needles. I also had inflatable splints and such.

These days I carry bandages, ace bandages, gauze, antiseptic, ice packs (I also use ice packs for stings and poisonous bites), band aids, scissors (if you EVER need scissors in an emergency situation and don't have them you'll never forget them again), antibiotic ointments, etc.

I will say that if you do use a tourniquet, ALWAYS remember to write the exact time down somewhere, preferably on the forehead of the patient in ink. A tourniquet has to be loosened slowly and that is determined on the amount of time the tourniquet has been on the patient.

From my police days:

On August 14, 1999, about 3:00 a.m., a 34-year-old man was shot five times while in a parking lot in downtown Austin. Officer Andrew Haynes, Officer Bill Hancock, and Officer Gregory White responded and found the victim breathing with difficulty. Officer Haynes and Officer Hancock cut the victim's clothing off, exposing his injuries, which included a chest wound. Officer Hancock applied pressure with his hand to the chest wound until a trauma kit was obtained. Officer Haynes and Officer Hancock then applied the trauma kit to the chest wound. Officer Hancock attended to a sucking chest wound on the victim with a piece of plastic from the parking lot. After a few seconds, the victim's heartbeat and breathing stopped. Officer Hancock began chest compressions but blood loss from a wound to the victim's neck became evident with each compression. Officer White inserted his finger into the neck wound to prevent further blood loss while Officer Hancock continued chest compressions. Emergency Medical Services arrived and took over life saving efforts. The victim regained a pulse and began breathing again as he was being loaded into the ambulance. The multiple injuries to the victim would have killed him if it were not for the actions of Officer Haynes, Officer Hancock, and Officer White. Each officer was instrumental in saving the life of the victim.

1999 was a strange year. I killed 2 people and saved 4. Weird.

Beve · Post by **Beve** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:24 pm

No prob Strider. Even though I work in the medical field, it always comes down to the basics in any situation.

BB-wow what an odd year of events. Way to go on the lives saved.

Good point about scissors. I keep a pair for fishing gear, but a clean pair is good for the kit.

Also a pen and paper are good to have (to record meds or time of injury) in the event you have to treat somebody. Sometimes that info is invaluble to "the calvary" when they arrive.

Another thing that is good are Steri-strips. Can close up a gash that may or may not need stitches and hold for a long time.

gyoung · Post by **gyoung** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:49 pm

Another invaluable idea is to simply go fishing with one of these guy's and let them play doctor if you get in trouble!!!!

Also I highly recommend packing some toilet paper in that kit! Maybe I'm just full of it, but you will want it when you need it.

All of the above suggestions are critical these guy's are invaluable sources of info!

I also recommend some superglue, you can seal a lot of wounds temporarily with glue and a butterfly bandaid!

G

Beve · Post by **Beve** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:27 pm

The Adventure medical Kits are pretty good and come in waterproof bags. They have most of what you would need to carry.

Harold Ray · Post by **Harold Ray** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:15 pm

http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/

friscotodd1 · Post by **friscotodd1** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:22 pm

does anyone carry those chemical heaters intended for heating a meal (like an MRE)??? I have read elsewhere that heat is a great way to deactivate the proteins that make up the venom in sting rays, hard heads and fire ants... I don't have any experience with those heat packs and wonder if they get hot enough to help or so hot they could make the problem worse?

SCREAMINREELS · Post by **SCREAMINREELS** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:36 pm

friscotodd1 wrote:does anyone carry those chemical heaters intended for heating a meal (like an MRE)??? I have read elsewhere that heat is a great way to deactivate the proteins that make up the venom in sting rays, hard heads and fire ants... I don't have any experience with those heat packs and wonder if they get hot enough to help or so hot they could make the problem worse?

you are correct, the heat deactivates the venom and will stop the pain, but most of the time its a good idea to get checked out to make sure there isnt any pieces of the barb left/nasy infections can pop up pretty quickly water needs to be hot i think the heaters would work for a small amount of water (finger)but you almost need a pretty large basin to stick a size 13 foot in, youd need quite a few heater packs, dont know the exact temp but ive done it before and the rule was as hot as they could stand without burning them, also change water as it cools off