Race boat refinish

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TexaRican
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Race boat refinish

Post by TexaRican »

Neighbor is trying to refinish his racer in time for the CR 100. I wanted to offer him my garage but I'm in the middle of a garage rebuild. Putting in enclosed cabinets because I'm sick of layers of sawdust and epoxy dust on all my tools. But I digress.

This beauty is a real featherweight. I'm guessing about 32lbs. It is 19 feet long and I'm told "tippy as hell". The flares are there because of some beam requirement imposed by the American canoe racing association back at some point. Never seen anything like it before. Boatbuilder was a guy named Richard Steppe (sp?) in the Dallas area. My neighbor Jeff is the 3rd owner I believe. Bought it from a guy paddling it in the 100 last year.

Plan is to fix some hairline cracks and graphite the bottom. I'm hoping to get some paddle time in this boat when finished but I think I might sink it at my current weight. (but I'll be running a 5 miler in the morning trying to do something about it)

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Night Wing
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Re: Race boat refinish

Post by Night Wing »

If the boat is tippy, I'm not a fan of his seat placement where there the seat on the starboard side of the boat. I think the seat should be in the middle of the boat. With the seating arrangement where it is right now, I'm guessing the boat will be very tippy and I think it won't track straight.
TexaRican
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Re: Race boat refinish

Post by TexaRican »

NW, I thought the seat was centered until you pointed that out. It may just be the camera angle. I do know he uses a single blade paddle so perhaps the seat is offset?? Still would not make sense to me but I'm not a canoe racer.
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gerald
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Re: Race boat refinish

Post by gerald »

That's a USCA Marathon Canoe similar to a Wenonah J-193 which weighs 23 pounds (take note pogo). It can also be called a C1. Shape due to rules--not because that's necessarily a good shape for a race boat. These boats are fast and tippy. It takes about 3 years to learn how to paddle one efficiently. The seat is (or should be) centered and slides back and forth. John Dunn, of Safari long boat note, is perhaps one of the best C1 paddlers in Texas.
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Re: Race boat refinish

Post by Pogo »

The seat is centered, no way it wouldn't be.

What's the construction here, is it wood? Looks a lot like the Bear Mountain C1 marathon racing design by Steve Killing. I've always wanted to build one of those, but don't really want or need a dedicated racer.

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See: http://www.bearmountainboats.com/18-6C1RacingCanoe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

32 lbs is light, but not what I'd call ultra light on a dedicated race boat. 23 would be ultra light. Ideally, the strength built into a boat, and thus its all-up weight, ought to be dictated by the course; Jack Spencer was just telling me how one of his boat models will weigh 20 lbs for the Mississippi Challenge, or whatever that race is called, and 27 lbs as a Texas Water Safari boat. That's quite a diff, and it's because there's no portaging or stuff to hit on the Mississippi. Kind of cruel irony that you need to toughen up a boat (add weight) for portaging, but you do.

Pepper, good to hear you're adding tool lockers to your shop. Keeping them clean is a great idea for a whole range of reasons.
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Re: Race boat refinish

Post by TexaRican »

It's a wood strip boat Pogo. Cedar I'm guessing but pretty dark. Picked it up again today and I think it may be lighter. If he has it out tomorrow, I'll take my scale over.

I with I could get Jeff on here to tell the real story of this boat. He knows all the racers. I think he said the guy who designed this boat was on a team from Houston that just won some big Yukon canoe race. Listening to him tell stories of the TWS and CR100 is getting me interested in trying a race at some point but certainly not in my 75lb battleship.

Regarding the enclosed garage storage, I'm also doing it for some security. We've had a few things go missing out of open garages around here lately. I leave my door open alot on the weekends and almost always the garage is unlocked. So, I'm going to start locking my nicer tools in the cabinet so at least nobody can dash in and grab them easily.

Gerald, when this blasted heat passes I start thinking about my next boat again. Is there such a thing as a dual use fishing/race boat? Maybe just a big boy race boat? I'd like to take on a challenge like the CR100 but I think a good cruising speed on my boat is no more than 4mph and on that race, you have to average 3.125 for 32 hours. Not realistic for me.

Also, is a flat bottom inherently slower than other hull shapes? My neighbor seemed to think flat bottom = slow. IDK but I can at least say my 3 panel is faster than any of the plastic SOTs I've owned.
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gerald
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Re: Race boat refinish

Post by gerald »

Pepperfool wrote: Gerald, when this blasted heat passes I start thinking about my next boat again. Is there such a thing as a dual use fishing/race boat? Maybe just a big boy race boat? I'd like to take on a challenge like the CR100 but I think a good cruising speed on my boat is no more than 4mph and on that race, you have to average 3.125 for 32 hours. Not realistic for me.

Also, is a flat bottom inherently slower than other hull shapes? My neighbor seemed to think flat bottom = slow. IDK but I can at least say my 3 panel is faster than any of the plastic SOTs I've owned.
Well...I have what I call a marathon boat but it's also a pretty good fishing/cruising/exploring boat as well. I paddled the same boat strider has--what he calls the conquista--in the CR100 and did the hundred miles in 16 hours and 27 minutes. At 80 miles I was in 5th place (not counting the pros), but severe leg cramps slowed me considerably for the last 20 miles. I ended up 15th--still pretty good. I believe strider will tell you that his boat is a pretty good fishing boat. My srchr16 was an excellent dual purpose boat. So I guess I can tell you that sure you can have a good fishing/cruising/exploring/racing boat. You can't win the race in that boat--but you can be respectable and have a lot of fun. There are also a lot of great canoes that can serve both purposes.

Saying a flat bottom boat is slow is a simplistic statement. All things being equal (width, etc.) a flat bottom (3 panel) boat will be slower than a round bottom boat. But things are never theoretically equal. The new 3 panel boat for seashell is pretty fast. If necessary I can build a flat bottom boat that will be very fast. I could probably equal the time I did on the CR100 with a good flat bottom boat. I can probably build a flat bottom boat that is as fast as my marathon boat--but it wouldn't be nearly as stable. Boats are never equal. And don't get me started on motors. Motors are never equal either. Mine is an old flat head...

As I mentioned--the C1 has that weird shape only to meet rules of length, width, and other factors. It's not necessarily the best shape for a race boat BUT it does meet the rules. You can flip it easily. It's hard to learn to paddle.
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Re: Race boat refinish

Post by Pogo »

Here I go butting in again. :D Gerald and I have been doing a little point-counterpoint thing for many years, goes something like this: Gerald is well-known for stating that small boats are task-specific, and that a builder should consider outlining what he wishes to do with his boat, then come up with a design that best adapts to it. Good conventional wisdom. My counterpoint, which is unconventional, is that I pick the boat I want to paddle most, then adapt what I wish to do to that boat.

Example: The SOT is very nicely suited to fishing, hence most kayak fishermen use SOT's. They're not optimal paddling boats, though, but so the choice is made since you can't have it all. I, on the other hand, value an efficient paddling boat very highly, so I fish out of a sea kayak. I get a great paddling boat, but not the most convenient thing to fish out of. There's no right or wrong, or better or worse, just personal choices we make. My choice is decidely not a popular one, but it is still valid enough just the same. In any case, you can fish out of any boat just as you can race any boat; there are no rules (well, in fishing, anyway).

Flat bottoms are not the fastest hull shapes; if you want to know what is, just take a quick look at the race boats. But if there were a race to be held over a course of 6" to 12" deep water, I bet you'd see more flat bottoms than anything. Flat bottoms have two major strong points: They're best for real shallow water, and they make the easiest hulls to build. But one of the reasons I have always liked pirogues is because they're so easy to build and yield a surprisingly fast performer in general -- an excellent bargain. Plastic SOT's, as we know them today, are the worst hull shapes next to cheap inflatables because they're designed with primary consideration given to resisting turning over with a full grown wild gorilla aboard, and little else. In short, the manufacturers have had to give up on the notion of paddlers developing boat handling skills and so meeting them halfway.

In today's scene, I'd have to say you'd be extremely hard put to do better than one of Gerald's designs for a fast and stable "dual-purpose" boat.

Now, if you really want to paddle a race, you'd best start thinking about developing a forward stroke that uses your full body, and not just your arms. You'll never get anywhere until you start rompin' and stompin' and driving the boat with your feet big time.
Last edited by Pogo on Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TexaRican
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Re: Race boat refinish

Post by TexaRican »

I got it wrong. It was the boat builder, Richard Steppe, who is in that Yukon race. Looks like the Texas team did pretty good. Team 73.

http://www.yukonriverquest.com/teambio.php?year=2009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Race boat refinish

Post by Mr23779 »

I would love to paddle a boat like that! I'll bet it would be a hoot.
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