Wanna take a trip? Livingston Dam to Hwy 59 NEW stuff

[greyloon]

In an earlier post, I asked about fishing at the Livingston Dam. Only two responded about having fished it, one, Cajunkayaker did recently and gave a good report, both on that thread and his own. Gerald mentioned the dam to 59 as a trip he would enjoy, even suggesting we could get Strider along. I said I'd check out things at the damsite and Hwy 59, Cajunkayaker already gave some information on the earlier thread I started. But, this is a thread for those who would like to try the trip downstream from the dam to the 59 crossing. No date is set, need to come up with one that best suits us.

The dam site----Water is faily low, releases have been in the 750-1100 cfm range for some time. As cajunkayaker said, only shallow draft boats, canoes and kayaks can launch into the river with that low of a release. Browders offers the best launch site, its a 5$ entry per vehicle and a $1 per person charge. Because of the low water, the ramps are pretty steep, though very doable. I was there on Monday, no boats of any kind on the water and very few were fishing from the bank. I didn't enter the campground and boat ramp area, Broweder's, in the past, hasn't been too enthusiastic about folks driving around down there without paying the fee. Browders also offers camping, believe its $12 per night for one car, up to 5 people. The campground has showers, though the girl at the counter said she didn't know if the hot water is on. The campground is a clean one if my past memory still serves me. There are two sets of boat ramps, one on the North side of the river...that may be the easiest area from which to launch a kayak or canoe, the other on the South side. The South side is the more developed and most used. Its probably the safest one at which to leave a vehicle.

On the North side of the dam, is another bait camp with limited access to the river. Access is by trail from at least three points. I though of Stider and the Falls on the Brazos when looking at the first trial. Its on the steep side, longer than at the falls, and with parts of cocrete boulders on each side of the trial. Two man carry would be the best way to get a kayak down it. The second trail is not one feasible for carrying a kayak down. Have to manuever around and over concrete chunks, no fun. The third trial I investigated is usable if you have a cart for the kayak. It leads to a dirt track that can be taken back to the river. One way takes you to Browder's North campground and boat ramp, giving a person so inclined access to a relatively easy launch site for only the day fee charged on the North side. Or, you can be a nice citizen and track back to just below the dam and put in. The charge for parking the car and accessing the river from that area is only $1.50, don't remember if that's per person, most likely it is. No car charge though. Just a more difficult access point to the river. I looked a the camping area, but it did not look like anywhere I'd want to pitch a tent. It was in disrepair with high weeds. According to the person at the store/bait camp, the showers only have cold water. I didn't ask about the camping fees. Wasn't interested. My standards aren't high...any fairly level place that's not too weedy will do, but this didn't pass my test.

The river---With only enough gates open to maintain required flow, the river is very low. But, its more than enough to float a kayak. It was about as clear as I ever see the Trinity. It had a nice greenish color and fair visibility. It will never be clear, to much mud and sand on the bottom. The release wasn't enough to inundate the small dam type wall on the pool below the dam, water came over that in a flow more reminiscent of a low water dam on the Guadelupe. As cajunkayaker said, there is a current and it would require a bit of work paddling back upstream for at least the first mile of the river from the dam, but it can be done. It didn't look much, if any faster than the Brazos at the Hwy 7 crossing several hours after the release from Waco has gone past that point. The current did not appear to be fast enough to push a paddle craft down river at any sort of a clip that allowed for drifting along. You'll have to work some to make it the distance to Hwy 59. One of the biggest negatives about paddling the Trinity, as well as most Texas rivers once that close to the coast, is the winds come right up the river unless from the North, northwest, westerly direction. Its not bad, unless gusting over 25 or so, then it could be a workout for some of us. With a more Northerly wind, the trip will be a faster one.

Hwy 59 take out---This is a very steep concrete ramp, though its a good one. Its wide enough I can turn my big old F150 long bed around without having to back up. But, there was no obvious soft place from which to launch a kakak. Expect some scratches. Like most river ramps, there appears to be a bit of washout at the end of the ramp from force of the water. Tore my castnet on the ledge. Knew better, but just had to toss it out to see what would jump in it. Just upstream is Long Creek, a good place for white bass, though low water conditions may not allow for much action. The RR has been working on the trestle just above the 590 bridge. The old one was torn up in some kind of incident a year or so ago. For a long while, there was a barge moored by the ramp with a big crane on it. The work is now complete, new RR bridge supports appear to have been put into place. The parking area is very good, lots of space, but little shade. One obvious concern is safty of vehicles left in the parking lot. The gal at Browders said a group has been canoeing and kayaking the river down to the bridge several times in the last month or so. She's heard no word about vandalism or theft. Two locals I talked to at the 59 take out said that they've had no problems over the years leaving a vehicle at the ramp. Said a game warden comes by enough to monitor what goes on. Yeah, like I believe that, as if game wardens don't have enough to do.

I've wanted to do the trip for a long time, just need a partner or two or three or however many are willing. This time of the year is ideal. With Livingston 3-4 feet below pool level, it should take a whale of rain upstream to force release of much water from the dam...its fully repaired, they just need rain to fill it. A bit more flow would make the trip faster, but could hamper take out if too fast. If you are interested, lets set a date and do it.[code][/code]

[gerald]

Wow--great report. I'm interested. Since you've been there I'll follow your lead as to where and what. I can make a weekend trip if I have enough time to get it scheduled. I can do a one day trip--sunday--with much less notice. I could possibly make the weekend of the 21st/22nd but from the 28th/29th on would probably be better for me.
Showers would be nice (this is to entice Strider), but I can bring a gallon of water and a new pee bucket if I have to....

[AA-ron]

So how long of a float are you thinking?

Fishing, or just paddling?

Are you launching up river and taking out down, or paddleing back up?

[greyloon]

Its approximately 9 miles from the dam to the Hwy 59 take out, a fairly short trip. Its all downstream. Though we could always send Gerald back up river for a car and enjoy fishing around the takeout...that shoud take about 2 hours for him Fishing is an option, as is just paddling and enjoying the day. Casual paddling should mean a 5 hour trip or so. Fishing, of course, will take more. As for camping, there is also Lake Livingston State Park, need a reservation this time of the year. Its about 3 miles from the river. I've not been far down river, so don't know if there is a sandbar large enough to camp on, though have been told there are some nice ones. Good gar fishing spots...this is the Trinity, some biguns there.
For those fishing, white bass, largemouths, stripers, hybrids, and catfish are good possibilities.

As for a date, Oct. 28-29th may be the better date, allows for some time to plan and get the word out. Though, I'm open to the earlier date. The first two weekends in November should also be good. After that, its iffy both because of the holidays and the weather. This should be a fairly easy trip through some relatively unspoiled areas, not much develpment of access to the river below the dam.

[Fla-Fish]

Sounds like a fun trip. Count me in so long as I can get a sitter.
Should not be a problem.

[AA-ron]

That sound like a blast, but i, will have to see what the dates are before I can comit

[gerald]

9 miles upriver could take 3 hours (or more). Depends on the current. Downriver 2 hours or less is doable (is that a word?) but still depends on conditions. HOWEVER--I doubt that I'll be putting that much effort into paddling that weekend. I certainly plan to make the 9 mile paddle at some time that weekend. Shucks--I may even do a little fishing (actually I plan on it). One aspect of river paddling is that it is always best to paddle upriver when one is fresh. That makes the downriver paddle much more fun. A shuttle vehicle left at the takeout can always take care of that problem. That's usually what I do on long paddles when someone else is with me. Anyway the logistics can be worked out as we go along. We certainly don't have to stick together all the time for fishing, but sometimes it's nice, especially when paddling and exploring--which I do a lot.
On another note I looked up the mileage I'll have to travel. It's a little far for a one day trip so my trip will definately be for both days (saturday and sunday). Those who can only make one day could catch the rest of us while we're there. Those who come should be prepared to be photographed--hopefully in compromising situations...

The 28th/29th works for me. The first two weekends of Nov. also.

[Strider]

All this paddling is cutting into my fishing .

Kim

[Infidel]

I think you will all be in for a treat, especially with the cooler weather. The whole river is very very fishy and full of wildlife, a great trip even without the fishing. Below the dam should still be decent fishing in the channel, even with minimal release, unfortunately the big boys will be up near the dam out of casting reach, feeding on all those shad getting churned up.

There is the opportunity for big big fish on the trip. One of my favorite memories was pulling in an 8-10 lb paddlefish there below the dam. We also took the canoe downstream a few miles one day, it's all beautiful with big bends, slow deep water and some sand bars. Bring nightcrawlers in case you can't cast net some shad.

The ramp at the developed area (N side I think) is in the best shape but extremely steep (thank goodness for light aluminum boats and 4wd). The ramp on the other side is pretty nonexistent I believe, just broken concrete and tough to launch from but not impossible, just be careful of sharp edges. Lots of trash in the water around the launches too, be careful walking in the water, wear shoes.

[greyloon]

I posted a thread line on the salt side, along with a mild jab. Thought we'd give those boys a chance to find out what river life is like. I'm not serious about the upriver paddle, unless some want to do it. I may take another trip up that way next week, do a bit of river fishing.

For now, the 28/29th looks good for me, but I'm open to other dates.

[AA-ron]

3 hours to get up river for a pro, but how long for a newbie?

[gerald]

All this paddling is cutting into my fishing .

Kim

You FISH on the FLOAT downriver. Then you fish while I'm paddling around exploring and otherwise making a nuisance of myself. I suspect you'll catch more fish on this trip (if you go) than we did at Caddo Lake. Still a very interesting trip. I suspect this one will be also.

[greyloon]

Infidel is right about trash in the water. Its both from some or or more or less human brothers, as well as the concrete dumped along the river just below the dam to break the force of the water coming down. Those boys fising from the bank with short poles seem to stay hung up.

Current release is about 1200. Just a bit of change after the rains Tuesday.

[gerald]

3 hours to get up river for a pro, but how long for a newbie?

I'm no pro. I'm just an old man who paddles a lot. You will not have to paddle any more than you want to. A 9 mile float downriver is nice and easy, but you can just fish close around the put in, fish camp, or dam. I probably will do more paddling, but I'm going to do a pretty good amount of fishing as well. Some of us may scatter a bit while paddling and fishing but we'll be crossing and following the same paths along the way. In the evening at camp or whatever we can tell lies to each other...

I want to emphasize that nobody is expected to do a lot of paddling. Fishing trips are fun trips for me. PLUS--I'm following Greyloon's lead on this trip since he has scouted it out. Besides--I'm still recovering from cancer surgery. That means a little girl can probably outpaddle me...

hmmm...come to think about it, some girls DO outpaddle me in the marathons. Ah well...go figure...

[Strider]

I'll talk to Hunter and see if he's interested in accompanying me. If so, I may go.

Kim

[Pogo]

I'd like to get involved with this trip too, although I'm not too hot on camping. I'm thinking to launch at 59 on the second day, and paddle upstream to hook up with y'all. I can paddle 20 miles in a day, no problem.

greyloon, lemme know if you want company on a scouting trip, may haffta come up and see that ol' river (for the first time).

Cheers, Kurt

[greyloon]

Maybe Lollipop can get some of his church group to come along, maybe even EWB.

[TrailShoe]

Looked at trip on topo map and 10 or so miles on river with current looks very easy in one day. A couple of items come to mind.
1) Leave most vehicles at exit point and trailer Kayaks and gear to entrance point.
2) Reverse this and leave trailer and vehicle(s) at exit point to return kayaks and gear to entrance point.
10 or so miles is a piece of cake in a day for even newbies on a river with current.
I am looking at my schedule to see if this is go for me. I enjoy river travel, especially down stream.
TS

[greyloon]

At a release of 1100, the current won't be swift, but will be there. The last time any of us looked into doing this, I think that a flow of up to 3000 looked good, but got a big rain and because the dam was busted, they had to releast water, got up to 10,000 and swift.

[greyloon]

Kurt, I'll PM you when I 'm sure its clear for me to go.

[Hunter]

Sounds like fun to me. We'll talk this weekend, Strider.

[Strider]

Sounds like fun to me. We'll talk this weekend, Strider.

Ok. I'll bring the heavy artillery. We'll hook up with a big 'GG and let 'im tow us all the way to the recovery point .

Oh, yeah. And some big baits too.

Kim

[fowlwaters]

A buddy of mine did a trip back in the 70's put in at the dam and went to the coast. They were in flat bottom boats and had 3hp motors on them. They plan to just float down but low flow and they had to run the motors all the time. (2 motors and 2 boats tied together would run 1 motor for a few hours and switch to motor 2 ) This trip was over 200 miles and took around 2 weeks I think. Might check with TRA (Trinity River Authority) for discharge rates and maybe mileage.

[Strider]

A buddy of mine did a trip back in the 70's put in at the dam and went to the coast. They were in flat bottom boats and had 3hp motors on them. They plan to just float down but low flow and they had to run the motors all the time. (2 motors and 2 boats tied together would run 1 motor for a few hours and switch to motor 2 ) This trip was over 200 miles and took around 2 weeks I think. Might check with TRA (Trinity River Authority) for discharge rates and maybe mileage.

Now that sounds like a real adventure.

Yeah, even up here on the Brazos you can even find yourself being blown upstream if there's not a lot of current. I think most paddlers understand they can't depend on current to bail them out on a downstream trip on any of the bigger rivers, especially now since most lakes are so low.

Kim

[FlounderFoot]

Sounds like a fun trip. I would like to do it if it fits my schedule. The big thing to work out is at the take out, how to get kayaks back on your vehicle. Keep us informed!