Suggestions for future EEF tourneys.

Parrothead · Post by **Parrothead** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:22 am

Take it for what it's worth to you. But here are a couple of suggestions I have for future EEF tourneys.

1. Have a Pro and an Amateur Division. I think it would result in more inclusive competition. I admit that I think my chances were hindered by the fact that I was competing against the likes of Dean Thomas and Scott Null. However, this tournament would have more appeal to the occassional weekend kayaker if there was a pro and an amatuer division. Many bass and SKA events work this way.

2. Simplify the recording procedures. While I really like the fact that this tournament is conservation minded, the recording process is somewhat cumbersome. And there is a lot of margin for error. I heard numerous stories about paper getting wet or blown out of the yak (that happened to me), cameras jamming, bad pictures, fish flopping out of the boat, etc. Furthermore, all the fish handling can't be good for the fish. Here's my suggestion.

Someone call Xtools (Team Margaritaville sponsor) or Frabil and get them to make a small landing net with a scale built in to the handle. The scale should have very bright and readable numbers, whether spring or digital. You land the fish in the net, leave it in the water, get out your camera and take a picture of the fish in the net and the scale - two pics per fish.

Then the tournament becomes a weight format. But it is also still a release format. There is less handling of the fish, and there is no reason for the fish to fly out of the boat.

3. Have a kid's division - There was a lack of families at the weigh in. Kayaking is relatively easy to do and inexpensive. For those reasons it should appeal to families and especially kids. Get a sponsor to come down with a truck load of kayaks suited for kids. Lots of tournaments have kids divisions. You'll get more families involved and more participation.

Just my .02.

Mrs Backlasher · Post by **Mrs Backlasher** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:26 am

NAME TAGS! We needed name tags so folks could more easily get acquainted with each other.

(That's good input, Norm! You've put some thought into it.)

Mrs. B

mike · Post by **mike** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:04 pm

Parrothead, you make some good points. My son, who is 14, and I would fish if the tournament was arranged that way: pro division, amateur, and kids. Don't hold out much hope I would win even in that format but I like my odds a little better.

Also, I wouldn't be interested if you have to attend a "captain's meeting" the day before. Rules are simple, or should be, and don't need to be verbally given out the day before.

Sounds like was fun for those interest in how it is set up though.

ARSAN · Post by **ARSAN** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:10 pm

i agree about the pro and am division coincidering i chatted with a few people that didn't enter the tournament cause they were sure the the guides would take it. i mean i know it's not the guides fault for being good considering they have worked hard to get where they are but the average weekend warrier, including myself, may be a little tough to compete against. just my .02

vincent · Post by **vincent** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:12 pm

I almost brought some name tags..alot of people had some awesome fishing shirts with their names on them that helped alot

As far as divisions go there has yet to be a fish caught that I thougt to myself "Wow" thats a nice fish..come on 27" redfish, thats within the slot. And 21" trout..throw back...18" flounder barely worth fileting..the pros have yet to dominate any event I've been to...the weather has dominated more

My vote is for a South Padre event..never fished there and would love and excuse to go.

Carp · Post by **Carp** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:13 pm

the only problem with that is the guy that one the redfish division had never caught a redfish before. everyone has a chance

Justin

vincent · Post by **vincent** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:17 pm

Haha Justin...I forgot about that..yeah that erked me the most :lol:

Mrs Backlasher · Post by **Mrs Backlasher** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:18 pm

Carp wrote:the only problem with that is the guy that one the redfish division had never caught a redfish before. everyone has a chance

Justin

Then you could look at it as giving the guides a better chance! LOL

Frog · Post by **Frog** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:35 pm

I like the "kids division" or "family division"
Lots of positives w/ this addition!

BENNY · Post by **BENNY** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:39 pm

Norm and I discussed some of these things on Saturday.

As regard to the Pro-am division, there were only 4 or 5 professional fisherman that fished on Sat out of the 100 anglers that we had. Only one of them placed and he placed 3rd in a category. If you look back at all of our tournaments, that is historically the case.
It's the "any given Sunday" mentality, anyone can catch the biggest fish in these tournaments. This is the 2nd time in 3 events where one of our Redfish winners caught their first ever Redfish. (which is amazing to me)

We are talking about the possibility about adding a fly only division and a few other things too.

Backlasher · Post by **Backlasher** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:46 pm

I think a kid's division would be great. Also, I second Vincent's suggestion that we do South Padre Island. They have a convention center and are used to getting out the publicity.

Parrothead · Post by **Parrothead** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:04 pm

Okay. Let me add something about the pro/am discussion. The last three teams that took the Woody had professional guides on them. This gives these teams an advantage. It doesn't guarantee they will win. But it will be a trend that those teams will consistently have top finishes.

A pro/am tournament format will take the edge off and ultimately result in better participation.

Minnow · Post by **Minnow** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:08 pm

I personally like fishing against the "big dogs"...... and would enter the pro division every time. What constitutes a "pro" anyhow? Now that I placed in a tourney, been fishing my whole life and have 6 major sponsors does that make me a pro?

I like some of Norm's ideas.....we lost a very nice flounder due to the measuring criteria, however, after Benny's explanation Saturday it makes more sense as to why it is catch, photo and release. I dig it but could go either way. The only thing that I did not care for was the check in time being 4 PM. From where I was fishing at "super secret location #1" it took me 1 hour and 10 minutes to get to FTU so I lost 1.5 hours of fishing.......but the flip side of that is they have to develop the film. Honestly at first I was like "why the hell am I fishing this tourney?" but after you experience it the rules, regs etc. etc. all make sense. A kids division would be awesome!

Minnow

WATERLOGGED · Post by **WATERLOGGED** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:29 pm

I fished the Port O EEF tournement but was unfortunate to not have fished this one a proam division would be cool BUT if I ever catch a winning fish I want to be able to talk smack to the Pro Guides and would not be able to do that if there was a split. I can see it now in big bright lights
John Watrelogged Buras beats out Scott Lets' Go Null and Dean Slowride Thomas taking home the slam. Ok i'll stop daydreaming now and get back to work but think of the bragging rights.

Parrothead · Post by **Parrothead** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:09 pm

Pro's are usually people who are guides or who otherwise work in the fishing industry. Lure makers would also qualify. Let me also clarify one point about sponsors.

It's great to have sponsors. But it is not only just pros who have sponsors. Many amateurs are sponsored in all kinds of tournaments. Tournament placings do not make you a pro either.

And while it is fun to fish against the guides and professional anglers, it is simply not reasonable to think that you will beat them. And even though Dean and Scott did not win, individually, their teams did. And if these are team efforts then it stands to reason that if you have professionals on your team then you will have an advantage.

I think a pro/am division is a very good thing for this tournament.

Ultrastealth · Post by **Ultrastealth** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:10 pm

I agree with much of what Parothead had to say. The problem is this, 100 people in a tournament is not that many. If you divided those people up into three categories, you just don't have that much competition. Is it completely fair the way that it is, no. Could it ever be, no. Do the guides have an advantage, you bet. But you are always one fish away from winning something. I'm certainly an amateur, and I was one fish away from winning it all. I don't think that you will see many changes until the participation goes up considerably, and I'm not sure that it would be as fun then.

trouttracker · Post by **trouttracker** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:13 pm

Kids division would be great. My 13 yr. old son and I would definitly get in on that.

trouttracker and cheese

Parrothead · Post by **Parrothead** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:15 pm

In some wierd way this is like a chicken or egg argument.

Almost all tournaments and circuits have pro/am divisions. BASS, SKA, etc all have pro am divisions and they are HUGE. 100 participants is nothing to sneeze at either, considering that this sport is still in its infancy and not as recognized in the sportfishing world. Personally, Im amazed that there is even a circuit of tournaments for kayak anglers.

But because anyone can do this, it should be as inclusive as possible. The pro/am and a kids division would make that happen, just as it has in all other major tournaments.

Mrs. Let's Go · Post by **Mrs. Let's Go** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:16 pm

I don't post often, but I have to chime in...

Scott and Dean both can spot fish better than me and probably work a lure better than me, but I have just as much of a chance to catch a fish here in the Galveston Area as they do as long as I do my homework! I know, in the eighteen years I've been married to him - I have out fished him a few times. If I'm not mistaken, aren't Dean and Mrs. B tied??? What does pro vs amatuer have to do with it? It's all about effort, determination, timing and mother nature! And, it has to be the right combination of all of the above. Knowing how to cast and the difference between a Redfish and mullet would also help.

I would like a kids division, but as I see it, Rick is tapping several sponsors for prizes, he is competing with some much more visible tourneys for this prize alotment, and it's one more division for Rick & crew to keep up with rules, entries, etc... I don't know if some of you asking for multiple divisions understand the details behind the scenes. Let's give this tourney a few more tries as is, get some more sponsors on board and boost the number of participants at each site...then we can hit Rick up about expanding the divisions.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox now.

trouttracker · Post by **trouttracker** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:17 pm

Kids division would be great. My 13 yr. old son and I would definitly get in on that.

trouttracker and cheese

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:45 pm

Great PH, the captains finally figured out the rules and you want to change them

IMHO, it is an annual series, so I wouldn't think it would be fair to change anything until '06.

Regarding guides, as long as you limit them to one per team, who cares... it's not like they are out there taking candy from babies.

Regarding the importance of the flounder makes this thing tough. I bet less than 10 participants caught legal flounder last week... it is not even a 'sport' fish but if your team doesn't catch a decent one, it's sunk.

If I were king, I'd put more emphasis on large trout.

And since claims to be an 'extreme' event, I don't think it should turn into a kiddie event. Not too mention, there is a liability factor especially if adults are not required to stay with there entered contestants.

Maybe we should have a father/son, mother/daughter tourney???

Peeshnuck · Post by **Peeshnuck** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:04 pm

I have fished all of the tourneys thus far, and from my point of view, we would not likely have enough entrants to support good prizes for both a pro and am divisions. I don't mind fishing against guides..just makes me work harder and happier when I do well.

I do believe that this is keeping a lot of folks from entering the tourneys though. I think that if you want to level the playing field and attract more folks into the tourneys it can be done. One suggestion is for any venue have a fixed number of put in spots. At the captains meeting, each person/team draws from the list to see where they will have to put in for the tourney. This puts all participants on an even playing field with regards to access to location. Would make things very interesting as well.

My other thought would be to make this a team competition instead of an individual competition. Allow teams of no more than 3 members....eight is way too much as in almost all instances people fish in pairs at best. This would also attract quite a few more folks I believe. Right now you either stack your team with eight members in order to increase the odds or your significantly handicapped. Teams should be required to fish together - not in seperate locations.

4:00 for check in during the long summer days is way too early and having to drive such a long distance to check in is also a nusicance. I would like to see the EEF designate a different check in location closer to fishing even if the awards are then located at a different venue.

Eliminate the use of fishbites.....come on now..this is an easy one, its just not in the spirit of using artificials.

As for the measuring...yea it can be tough and am sure some improvements can be made, but for the most part, it seems to work very well.

Anyway....just my thoughts

Ultrastealth · Post by **Ultrastealth** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:09 pm

There is little doubt that reds are the easy part of the slam. The last two tournaments you had to have a red of over 27" to compete, but the flounder and trout were anything but huge. It's kind of interesting too. I caught some pretty big flounder and trout in Galveston this spring, but they were both hard to come by on Saturday for me and most other people. Scott fully admitted that he is a great red fisherman and a very average trout fisherman. In my opinion, the biggest strategy is where you fish, not what you throw. People had to weigh going after primarily one large specimen of one species and hope to get lucky and catch the other two, or go to a spot that had better chances of catching all three, but more average sized fished (my choice). In my humble opinion, you needed to be luckier than good.

Kingwood Kayaker · Post by **Kingwood Kayaker** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:54 pm

It's not a tournament if it's supposed to be a gimme'. I guess we're just going to have to start handing out consolation ribbons.

The whole point of a tournament is to compete with the best people who are fishermen too. I DO NOT want to win a tournament competing against people who are just out for a full Saturday paddle. I want to win against the people who make me work for what I earn. I want to be forced to think about where I'm going to fish and I want to be at the top of my game when the sun rises on Competition Saturday.

As far as the guides helping win the trophy, I can tell you that wasn't the case this past weekend. I'm a computer sales guy and I won 1st place in the trout division. On Friday night, I told "The Pro's" where I was going to fish. Their response? "Good Luck - That should be a decent area". Everyone knows that San Luis Pass can yield big reds or big trout. It didn't take a guide to tell me to go fish where we all know the fish are. When I finished ahead of them and won the top spot, they were easily as excited as I was.

Let's compete for the sake of competing. We win, we lose, we all get better and enjoy the challenge of trying to be the best of the best when it matters the most.

Phil

Backlasher · Post by **Backlasher** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:08 pm

I think Peesnuck has a point! Limiting the put-in points would eliminate the main advantage of a guide, being on the water every day and knowing where the fish are. Smaller teams that have to fish together would put an emphasis on being better fishermen not covering all the bases. I like it!
I understand Phil's point too. It's a competition. If I ever win anything I want to know it was against everyone else's "A" game.

TexasKayakFisherman.com

Suggestions for future EEF tourneys.

Suggestions for future EEF tourneys.

kids

kids

Pro/Am divisions