If there was a Pro division I would enter it as the odds are greater that I would win something as there would be alot less entered. Don't forget the Galveston leg last year second place trout was a lady amateur and it was her first tournement.
Kids event sounds like a cool idea as they are the future. On the flip side, adding more categories dilutes the prizes.
Parrot, thanks for starting this thread, you might make a difference.
And thanks PA Hillbilly for not fishing these events, he was an amateur also and won the whole enchilada.
Suggestions for future EEF tourneys.
Well Said Phil..
Like you I like competing against pros or other accomplished fishermen..
Everyone has an equal opportunity to prepare and come up with a game plan that meets your style and strengths. I would have loved to spend more time prefishing for this, but it was not to be....I got to fish for approx 1.5 hours Thursday evening around 4:30.
One of the problems is that who will define "pros"? Is it guides? past winners of EEF? In my case, it would not matter, since I will always fish against the very best I can.
I will be none of us that won in the trout division would have guess we would be winners with the size fish caught. I fully expected to see at least one big sow show. To have an average trout win, just shows that everyone had a good chance.
Whats impressing is to listen to those folks who consider themselves amatures and see how far they have come....don't think for a moment that any of us don't take each and every person entered as a serious compeditor.
Some people have their favorites that they spend most of their time on, i.e. specks for me, redfish for the likes of Dean and Scott, GaryZ is a serious flounder guy...and so forth and so on...
For those that have held back, you might well surprize yourself. Give it a try.
Everyone has an equal opportunity to prepare and come up with a game plan that meets your style and strengths. I would have loved to spend more time prefishing for this, but it was not to be....I got to fish for approx 1.5 hours Thursday evening around 4:30.
One of the problems is that who will define "pros"? Is it guides? past winners of EEF? In my case, it would not matter, since I will always fish against the very best I can.
I will be none of us that won in the trout division would have guess we would be winners with the size fish caught. I fully expected to see at least one big sow show. To have an average trout win, just shows that everyone had a good chance.
Whats impressing is to listen to those folks who consider themselves amatures and see how far they have come....don't think for a moment that any of us don't take each and every person entered as a serious compeditor.
Some people have their favorites that they spend most of their time on, i.e. specks for me, redfish for the likes of Dean and Scott, GaryZ is a serious flounder guy...and so forth and so on...
For those that have held back, you might well surprize yourself. Give it a try.
I'm really not sure how to respond to this. I'm flattered that some of y'all consider fishing against Dean and I to be such a challenge, but come on. This is a "one big fish" event. If it were the best three-fish stringer of reds or five trout, then you might have a point. I caught three solid reds that I'd put up against anyone else's three-fish catch. That is where the "pros" would have an advantage. Consistently catching three reds or more every day is what I'm good at, not catching the biggest single fish. How can I selectively target a 28 1/2" red over a 27" red?
This tournament is about having fun and competing. If you can't loose and still enjoy yourself then don't play the game. I got beat by 3/4" at both POC and Galveston. Still had a great time.
Take a good look at the team portion of the event and tell me why everyone is so worked up about it. There's no money and no valuable prize involved. It's bragging rights and a wooden fish!!!
Personally, if there were a pro division I probably wouldn't get involved. This thing is about having fun and hanging out together.
regarding the designated put-ins and 4 pm weigh-in....everyone IS on equal footing. Everyone has an opportunity to put in wherever they want and everyone has to be back at the same time. Want to fish longer, choose a place that's closer. Feel confident in your far-flung place? Go for it and know you have to quit early. All of this makes the planning and plotting more fun to me. I would've liked to have fished East Bay, but elected not to chance the ferry ride back to Galveston. Who knows? I might've gotten that extra 3/4" on my redfish.
...and regarding the picture-taking format. Don't change a thing. that part is about as much fun as catching the fish. I find myself laughing everytime I try to pull it off. Just one more thing that makes this tournament different. Go out and practice this part before the next tournament and it'll get easier.
As I have pointed out many times...anyone can win this thing on any given day. Join the party, have fun, and see if can't get lucky and catch a big'un.
This tournament is about having fun and competing. If you can't loose and still enjoy yourself then don't play the game. I got beat by 3/4" at both POC and Galveston. Still had a great time.
Take a good look at the team portion of the event and tell me why everyone is so worked up about it. There's no money and no valuable prize involved. It's bragging rights and a wooden fish!!!
Personally, if there were a pro division I probably wouldn't get involved. This thing is about having fun and hanging out together.
regarding the designated put-ins and 4 pm weigh-in....everyone IS on equal footing. Everyone has an opportunity to put in wherever they want and everyone has to be back at the same time. Want to fish longer, choose a place that's closer. Feel confident in your far-flung place? Go for it and know you have to quit early. All of this makes the planning and plotting more fun to me. I would've liked to have fished East Bay, but elected not to chance the ferry ride back to Galveston. Who knows? I might've gotten that extra 3/4" on my redfish.
...and regarding the picture-taking format. Don't change a thing. that part is about as much fun as catching the fish. I find myself laughing everytime I try to pull it off. Just one more thing that makes this tournament different. Go out and practice this part before the next tournament and it'll get easier.
As I have pointed out many times...anyone can win this thing on any given day. Join the party, have fun, and see if can't get lucky and catch a big'un.
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Electric Water Boy
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Guest
I'm with Scott on the matter of Pros
It would be one thing if it were the best stringer or the most but one fish anyone can be a winner if they get the biggest.
Some have posted that they feel adding divisions would delete the prize pool. I don't want to put words in Parrothead's mouth, but feel his idea would hopefully increase the number of entrants and thus the prize pool could very well stay where it is.
Those that want to fish against the best can always enter against the best.
Some have asked how to define a pro and it shouldnt be too hard, nor require a captain's meeting to explain it. Various tournament circuits have defined what they feel is a pro, it often means anyone who has won money in a professional division of a tournament or who receives compensation for guiding other fishermen.
Almost all major tournament series (current and prior) have pro and amatuer divisions including some of the BASS tournaments (some are pro-am and others are all professionals), Troutmasters, etc.
Maybe the increased participation with a pro-am setup will not happen. Maybe it will. Could be the EEF organizers are completely happy with how things currently are and, if so, that's great. Perhaps some other group will institute a tournament series with pro-am divisions, with only Texas tournament sites, or Texas and Louisiana, and then we will see if this is a good idea or not.
Those that want to fish against the best can always enter against the best.
Some have asked how to define a pro and it shouldnt be too hard, nor require a captain's meeting to explain it. Various tournament circuits have defined what they feel is a pro, it often means anyone who has won money in a professional division of a tournament or who receives compensation for guiding other fishermen.
Almost all major tournament series (current and prior) have pro and amatuer divisions including some of the BASS tournaments (some are pro-am and others are all professionals), Troutmasters, etc.
Maybe the increased participation with a pro-am setup will not happen. Maybe it will. Could be the EEF organizers are completely happy with how things currently are and, if so, that's great. Perhaps some other group will institute a tournament series with pro-am divisions, with only Texas tournament sites, or Texas and Louisiana, and then we will see if this is a good idea or not.
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Guest
After reading Mike's post... I deduced the 'pro's have already benefited by new T160i's ect., so why not cut them out of the loop? Each pro can have their own team... this will keep it competitive through out the year long series (regarding bragging rights) and all the prize money can go to the amateurs 
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LiverDog
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I dont think they should change a thing. I like the focus being brought back to fishing as well. We dont need a band or a huge banquet. We are there to compete and have fun in the process. I have a buddy that used to run a bass club. He laughs when I tell him about all these "suggestions" that people so kindly make. I for one think that the events are going as good as they can. I am personally aware of just what kind of stake the Director has in these things and just how much work it takes to put these on. So If you think you can crank up a national tournament series with all the bells and whistles that you have described and not lose your A$$. I say party on. I will show up and fish it. Untill then join the best and only game in town and just have some fun silly. By the way I have been skunked in the salt twice now so there.
LD
LD
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Guest
LiverDog wrote:I seem to remember looking for you at the last three events Dumas. You were never there. For someone with all the answeres you sure are scarce.
LD
We don't need a band?
I am going to disagree with you once more, LD. Let's Go fishes this thing for the brotherhood, so how can a band and a little bar-b-que hurt? Does it affect the bottom line of the series??
And you are correct, I've never fished the 'series'. However, my opinion is delivered free of charge because some day I hope to...
Once again, is this a pro-series? or do we want to make the event(s) bigger?? PH's original post was made because he wanted to see this be more successful... but if your mind is not opened to new ideas... don't change a thing.
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Kingwood Kayaker
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Of course it's intent is to be a series that attracts professionals. There are cash prizes, broad recognition, individual and team sponsorships, corporate partners, the tour travels the country, and there is a full-season point system.
It's not your Smallville 4th of July Fishing Derby in the community pond at Town Square.
The good news is that the tour is coming (or has come) to a location near you and you don't have to be a professional to compete. You don't have to be a professional to win a division. You don't even have to be a professional to be crowned Angler of the Year when the last tournament is in the books; the previous Angler of the Year wasn't a professional fisherman, he was a Navy pilot. (Oh, and he did it while he was living in Maine.)
To be the best, you've got to beat the best. If I'm going to get beat, I want to get beat by the best. If I'm going to do the beating, then I want to beat the best. Anything less is setting your goals too low.
The goal is to make everyone better. You can't do that by lowering the bar. You've got to keep the bar high and then continue to improve until you can get over the bar. Once you can get there, raise it again because you're only cheating yourself.
Phil
It's not your Smallville 4th of July Fishing Derby in the community pond at Town Square.
The good news is that the tour is coming (or has come) to a location near you and you don't have to be a professional to compete. You don't have to be a professional to win a division. You don't even have to be a professional to be crowned Angler of the Year when the last tournament is in the books; the previous Angler of the Year wasn't a professional fisherman, he was a Navy pilot. (Oh, and he did it while he was living in Maine.)
To be the best, you've got to beat the best. If I'm going to get beat, I want to get beat by the best. If I'm going to do the beating, then I want to beat the best. Anything less is setting your goals too low.
The goal is to make everyone better. You can't do that by lowering the bar. You've got to keep the bar high and then continue to improve until you can get over the bar. Once you can get there, raise it again because you're only cheating yourself.
Phil
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TKFStubb
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Well said
Kingwood Kayaker wrote:Of course it's intent is to be a series that attracts professionals. There are cash prizes, broad recognition, individual and team sponsorships, corporate partners, the tour travels the country, and there is a full-season point system.
It's not your Smallville 4th of July Fishing Derby in the community pond at Town Square.
The good news is that the tour is coming (or has come) to a location near you and you don't have to be a professional to compete. You don't have to be a professional to win a division. You don't even have to be a professional to be crowned Angler of the Year when the last tournament is in the books; the previous Angler of the Year wasn't a professional fisherman, he was a Navy pilot. (Oh, and he did it while he was living in Maine.)
To be the best, you've got to beat the best. If I'm going to get beat, I want to get beat by the best. If I'm going to do the beating, then I want to beat the best. Anything less is setting your goals too low.
The goal is to make everyone better. You can't do that by lowering the bar. You've got to keep the bar high and then continue to improve until you can get over the bar. Once you can get there, raise it again because you're only cheating yourself.
Phil
Well said , Phill. Spoken like a true winner! Its evident that Saturday gave you a real boost of confidence... as it should! Winning, placing, or even showing is something to be proud of. Keep up the good work! Wanna join MY team?
I like your attitude
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Parrothead
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Okay guys and gals. The simple fact is that everyone participates in tournaments for lots of reasons. Some are like Phil who want to go up against the best. I admit that is one of my main reasons as well.
Then there are people who go for the fun of it and the camaradarie. That's a huge draw for me as well.
My main reason for writing the original post was because this is a sport that has a lot of interest and growing participation. But it is very much in its infancy as a sport. But because kayaking and fishing is something that can and does appeal to families as well, it only makes more sense to have events like the EEF be more inclusive. A pro/am division accomplishes this. This is a proven fact in nearly every tournament circuit.
And by the way. These things can be set ups so that the overall winner an be a pro or an amateur.
I respectfully disagree with LD about not changing a thing. A kids division would probably increase participation in this event by at least 1/4. You can't know the satisfaction of participating in a tournament until your kid competes in it. And if he/she wins something so much the better! And when they don't, they learn valuable lessons about competition. And if your lucky, it instills ambition in them to become better anglers. I know that's what it did for me. And those lessons carry over into other aspects of their lives.
A kids division is in my humble opinion the best thing that could happen to this kind of a tournament. It would bring in all members of the family. And in a sport that the entire family can enjoy, why not have it? Sponsors jump all over these kinds of things. Sure it takes work. But it's well worth the effort.
Then there are people who go for the fun of it and the camaradarie. That's a huge draw for me as well.
My main reason for writing the original post was because this is a sport that has a lot of interest and growing participation. But it is very much in its infancy as a sport. But because kayaking and fishing is something that can and does appeal to families as well, it only makes more sense to have events like the EEF be more inclusive. A pro/am division accomplishes this. This is a proven fact in nearly every tournament circuit.
And by the way. These things can be set ups so that the overall winner an be a pro or an amateur.
I respectfully disagree with LD about not changing a thing. A kids division would probably increase participation in this event by at least 1/4. You can't know the satisfaction of participating in a tournament until your kid competes in it. And if he/she wins something so much the better! And when they don't, they learn valuable lessons about competition. And if your lucky, it instills ambition in them to become better anglers. I know that's what it did for me. And those lessons carry over into other aspects of their lives.
A kids division is in my humble opinion the best thing that could happen to this kind of a tournament. It would bring in all members of the family. And in a sport that the entire family can enjoy, why not have it? Sponsors jump all over these kinds of things. Sure it takes work. But it's well worth the effort.
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Guest
Kingwood Kayaker wrote:the tour travels the country
No it doesn't. The 'saltwater' series stays in Tx and Florida.
PH, I am all for getting families into the sport...
... and all that is needed is a couple of sponsors. But EEF isn't interested in it... this is a perfect opportunity for TKF, and it's members, to step up to the plate. I'll donate my time if you make me 'social' chairman
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Paddlefoot
- TKF 1000 Club
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Parrothead wrote:A kids division is in my humble opinion the best thing that could happen to this kind of a tournament. It would bring in all members of the family. And in a sport that the entire family can enjoy, why not have it? Sponsors jump all over these kinds of things. Sure it takes work. But it's well worth the effort.
C'mon PH, The kid has just as good of a chance as anyone to catch that winning fish. How would Wilderness Systems look if their team was beat by a 10 year old? I think there's some pride to be considered here.
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Flyfisher
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My $ .02:
1) While the present measuring system is not great, it does work.
2) I think Shane has a great idea about having a couple of weigh in places closer to the water. I know that many of us left in what we thought was adequate time to get to FTU, but the traffic was heavier than expected and that resulted in traveling at 80-90 mph to get back on time.
3) The bad aspect of limited put in points is that we are in kayaks and if we have to paddle long distances, then go back and read #2 above.
4) The "guides" are not winning as many places as I thought they would. I have to agree with Ultrastealth that in the tournaments so far, luck played a big part of being at the right place at the right time; a lot of very good anglers were shut out in every tournament. This is one aspect of kayak fishing we all deal with: if we pick the wrong place to fish or if the conditions change, we stand a good chance of not catching anything. If you really want to level the playing field, cut out the prefishing 3-7 days before the tournament; some of the bass tournaments do this.
Ray
1) While the present measuring system is not great, it does work.
2) I think Shane has a great idea about having a couple of weigh in places closer to the water. I know that many of us left in what we thought was adequate time to get to FTU, but the traffic was heavier than expected and that resulted in traveling at 80-90 mph to get back on time.
3) The bad aspect of limited put in points is that we are in kayaks and if we have to paddle long distances, then go back and read #2 above.
4) The "guides" are not winning as many places as I thought they would. I have to agree with Ultrastealth that in the tournaments so far, luck played a big part of being at the right place at the right time; a lot of very good anglers were shut out in every tournament. This is one aspect of kayak fishing we all deal with: if we pick the wrong place to fish or if the conditions change, we stand a good chance of not catching anything. If you really want to level the playing field, cut out the prefishing 3-7 days before the tournament; some of the bass tournaments do this.
Ray
LiverDog wrote:Dumas Mike and ParrotHead. Why dont you guys put up the jingle and create your own tournament. I would fish in it. Show everyone how to do it right if you can. LOL
LD
If you do enter LD, please note rule 249(b)(3) which prohibits using the words fascist or fascism during tournament hours. It is grounds for immediate disqualification.
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treetopflier
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Good Lord, a pro-am division??? That is one of the most far fetched ideas I have heard of so far. I have a better idea, lets set a section aside for newbies, one for people with 3 years expierience, then one for people who fish everyday (Please note sarcasm). Come on guys, if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. Their would be no clear space to draw the line. Man, with so many of you guys wanting to be "Tournament Directors", it is a mazing we don't have more tournaments along the coast for kayakers.
Travis
Travis
Heya Parrothead,
Keep the ideas coming. The tournament is still in it's infancy, and will, most assuredly, improve and change over the coming years as a result of everyone's suggestions. However, to make your point about a pro division, using Slowride and Let's Go as examples of superior fishermen, was a very poor example on your part. As a rank amature, in every sense, I fish with them as often as possible, and have never failed to out fish them.
I'm sorry I had to miss the Galveston tourny cause I've had a ball at the past events. Guess I'm not very competitive when it comes to fishing, because I could care less about who I am 'competing' against. Besides, I can't catch those stinkin' flounder, no matter what. The comaraderie, the yak atmosphere, and the chance to socialize with friends and fellow characters is what appeals to me.
Keep the ideas coming. The tournament is still in it's infancy, and will, most assuredly, improve and change over the coming years as a result of everyone's suggestions. However, to make your point about a pro division, using Slowride and Let's Go as examples of superior fishermen, was a very poor example on your part. As a rank amature, in every sense, I fish with them as often as possible, and have never failed to out fish them.
I'm sorry I had to miss the Galveston tourny cause I've had a ball at the past events. Guess I'm not very competitive when it comes to fishing, because I could care less about who I am 'competing' against. Besides, I can't catch those stinkin' flounder, no matter what. The comaraderie, the yak atmosphere, and the chance to socialize with friends and fellow characters is what appeals to me.
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WATERLOGGED
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