Kayak Design for heavier newbe

[jimmy_b_777]

Hello everyone. I moved to Houston about 2 years ago and really want to get out of the water and do some fishing. I enjoy building things and have an aptitude for it, so I figure the best way to fulfill my desires and save some money in the precess is to build my own fishing kayak. I've looked over many designs and think I'd like to start with a 3 panel design or a derivation that would give me a V bottom for a bit better stability and ride in the chop. I have considered a hybrid design with a strip built top, but will probably stay simple for my first boat and see where the craft takes me. My biggest problem is I have had trouble finding any designs to carry larger person. Most designs I've found quote being for someone around 150 to 180 lbs. I'm in the 250 range, so I worry about riding too deep in the water for shallow areas and difficulty maneuvering. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had this issue, but I can't seem to find any info about it. I would like to be able to carry gear too, so I figure I need a design for about 300lbs plus the weight of the yak itself. I'm not in the position to free up the cash for an expensive fishing yak, so I need to do this on the cheap, or make this a project that I can spread out the cost over a few months of building and modifying. Any help anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated! Thanks everyone!

[makenmend]

jimmy_b_777
depends on where/what you intend to use the boat for, the TV-29,15 would easily handle most situations and if youd like to test drive(so to speak) your welcome to try mine.

MM

[bowgarguide]

My T-V has had a payload of 250 and my 250 in her on a four day trip on the river with no problems.
Ron
MM did you get your T-V finished?
Ron

[makenmend]

Ron yessir she's done but spooks have invaded my puter and can't resize/post pics. 1st test with no gunnels/decks went well, just about ready for varnish then its all over exept the slime.

MM

need to catch up with you and Darrell in the near future for a trip.

[bowgarguide]

Well get casper out of there and post pics when you can
I think you are going to like that boat.
Ron

[LHThunder]

The one 3-panel I built is 13.5' long X 30" wide and I weigh 285. I have had my 50 lb dog in it with me too. Plenty for me and yes, I do sit lower in the water than someone 100 lbs lighter but we all will run out of water eventually. You should not have a problem especially with a boat in the 15' range.

[jimmy_b_777]

Thanks for the advice everyone! This board will go a long way in helping me get through my project. Once I get started, I'll definitely post lots of pictures of the build. Right now I'm trying to do as much research as I can and figure out the best place to start. It'll be a little while before I can get started, considering we just bought this house and I still have a long honey-do-list. Darrell alerted me to the Jumbo Challenger. I took a look at the thread and liked what I saw. I'd like a closer look at the plans if Gerald would be so kind. A few of you talked about a T-V, but I couldn't find any other references to that in the forum search. Could someone enlighten me?

You asked what my intended use is, so her it is. I'd like to use it for fishing in the shallow waters inland of Galveston Island. I'd like the option of maybe going a little farther out, but it's not a requirement. I want some stability so I can stand up when needed. I also don't want it to ride too deep so I can maneuver easily in the shallow waters. As I mentioned earlier I like the open design so I can easily get to my gear and not have to worry about it going over board. I've read that the 3 panel boats can get a little rough in the chop and any v in the bottom can help, so this is part of why I like the 5 panel design. Also just think they look a little nicer.

Thank you everyone for the help and advice! I look forward to getting started and posting along with the build.

[jimmy_b_777]

MM,

Thanks for the test drive offer. If you're ever going to be in the Houston area, hit me up and we can try to get together. I warn you though, I'm completely new to all this, so I'll probably have questions that you'll want to answer and will probably slow you down quite a bit. I'm a quick learner though, so if you can handle hauling around an extra boat anchor, then I'd be glad to get the chance to pick up anything I can about the sport.

Thanks,
James

[gerald]

jimmyB: I'll address a couple of your questions and comments. Several things you'll need to consider. Length is important because you need to consider how you're going to transport it, maneuverability, efficiency, etc.. Width is important for different reasons. You mentioned standing up. The only way to achieve the stability needed to stand is to make the boat wider. That has some detrimental effects but for the most part we're talking fishing boat--not race boat. Shallow draft is a misnomer. If your load, including the boat, weighs 300 pounds then you have to displace 300 pounds of water. The only way to draft shallower is to spread the load. That also means wider.
The concerns about 3 panel boats not handling rough waves and chop is far overblown. When any boat is in water so rough that the hull sees air you're going to feel impact when your boat returns to water. The key is to keep the hull in the water. Part of that is design, part is load, and part is skill of paddler. You can hear this problem in some plastic boats--what many call wave slap. It's because the design is such that it presents surfaces to be slapped. We don't want that. We want the boat in the water for best control and performance.
And you can see the Challenger in the photo gallery on my site. The Jumbo Challenger is exactly the same with the exception that it has a 10" sheer rather than 8". Cockpit and deck style can be adjusted any way you want it. Most of them have been in the Brazos River Fishing Boat style.

http://texaspaddler.com/gallery/album44?page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dogpaddlin]

JimmyB,

I think the TV they are referring to is on the JEM website, I don't have one, but I do have a 3 panel pirogue I built a couple of years ago you are welcome to paddle. I live in Spring and would be happy to meet you one weekend.

[jimmy_b_777]

Gerald,
I saw that build a little while ago, just didn't realize it was the Challenger. I really like this boat. I'm starting to think my fears of being too heavy for the boat were mostly in vain. The whole idea if standing up is not a requirement at all, just a thought. I've tried my hand at fly fishing a little bit and though being able to stand up in the boat could make this possible. Just the practical side of me wanting to make it multi-use. I certainly don't want to sacrifice performance just for a little stability. As far as the wave slap, I experienced this when I borrowed a friends OceanKayak. It was loud, and I'm guessing it didn't help keep the fish close by. Looking at your build, I noticed you strip built the deck. Did you use bead and cove on the strips, or was it flat enough to use straight strips? This looks really cool, and I like the idea, just not sure if I want to risk it going wrong on my first boat. I guess I could build the bottom and see how it goes, then decide on the top when I get to it.

[gerald]

I do not use bead and cove at any time. It is of limited use in any case since you end up fitting many pieces as a rolling bevel anyway and cutting the bead cove is a pain. In my opinion far too much trouble for far too little benefit. It is usually inexperienced builders that use bead and cove--though not always. There have been some nice boats built with bead and cove strips--but not from me.

[jimmy_b_777]

Good to know bead and cove is not a requirement. I don't have a router table anyways. In fact, at the moment I'm pretty limited in my wood working tools as they are all back at my father's house in New Mexico. I'll be building this one with a circular saw, jig saw, had drill and random orbital sander...and of course whatever jigs I dream up in the process. The question of length was mentioned earlier too and I forgot to give an answer. I will be hauling this thing in a 4 door Nissan Frontier, so I don't have a very long bed. I figured if I need, I can rig up a bed extender of some form or go the headache rack/ladder rack method. The only experience I have so far is with the short ocean kayak I borrowed from a friend. I believe this was only 9 feet or so. I've been hearing I need something at least 15ft if I want any form of decent tracking. On that thought, the ocean kayak did have alot of "over steer", I just figured it had to do with my lack of experience. In the end, I really just want something I'm not going to be afraid to stick in the water often and stay eager for the next trip out.

[JEM]

Definitely find something that can handle your projected max payload AND still handle like a paddle craft should.

Drives me nuts seeing canoes rated for 900 lbs and what they are not telling you is you'll have maybe 3" before the water starts coming over the sides and that it will handle like a bloated pig.

Something longer will generally handle the bigger loads better from a weight and handling standpoint. That being said, try not to get more boat than you really need. Some people plan for (for example) 600 lbs of paddler, fish, and gear when all they really need is capacity for 300.

[jimmy_b_777]

JEM,
The weight rating has been what I've been worried about this whole time. If I get one rated for too low weight, then I'll have the bloated pig, but if it's rated for too high weight, then it won't ride deep enough in the water and won't track right. My plans are for me (about 250#), some gear (no more than 50#), and possibly would like to take my son out occasionally (currently about 30#). So all that said, I figure a boat rated for optimum performance around the 250 to 300 range, but still usable up to 400#. I may even let my wife take it out, so the load would be quite a bit lighter, I may even eventually build her one.
Thanks everyone for the advice!
James

[jimmy_b_777]

I've been looking through all the free plans I can find to try to get an idea of what's available. Has anyone build the JEM Laker 13 - free version? Does anyone have any comments as to if this would suit my needs as I've stated them in this thread? I noticed it says it's designed for an ideal load of 110 - 250 lbs. I figure if I'm 250 and I don't carry much gear, then this may make for a good fishing yak. Was thinking a few modifications for rod holders and dry storage in the back and a recess in the front to strap down a tackle box and small cooler. Any comments?

[preacher]

This ole boat carries a ton, very stable, cheap to build. My design, and plans are free.
http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee56 ... BLE%20BEE/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jimmy_b_777]

Preacher,
I like the design, but just a couple of questions. There's an extra 6 inches in the sides that don't fit on the 2 x 8ft. sheet design. Where/how do you make up the difference? Also, it looks like you only glassed the seams. What have you experienced with it's resistance to water damage? How much does the final boat weigh? The seat looks heavy!
Thanks,
James

[preacher]

Preacher,
I like the design, but just a couple of questions. There's an extra 6 inches in the sides that don't fit on the 2 x 8ft. sheet design. Where/how do you make up the difference? Also, it looks like you only glassed the seams. What have you experienced with it's resistance to water damage? How much does the final boat weigh? The seat looks heavy!
Thanks,
James

I do a but joint and add 3 inches to each end of each side panel.
Actually I did a 3 inch glass strip on the seams inside and out and then 100% of the inside side panels. The bottom got 2 layers of glass inside and out.
Zero damage with a lot of heavy use including banging into oyster banks in the bays, and logs on fresh water lakes. One of my adjustable foot braces pulled the bolt through the sidewall when my teenage grandson jumped into the boat and landed on top of the foot brace. I re-drilled all the bolt holes over size, filled with goopy, sanded flat when dried and redrilled the bolt hole. I then added 1 inch stainless washers and never had another problem.
Heavy. Fully rigged with seat and all about 85 - 90 pounds. But, this was my second build and I used polyester instead of fiberglass resin. I also used heavy planking for bracing instead of light weight bracing and on and on. This boat can be built 10 pounds lighter with a little attention to detail.

On the other hand I built my brother's boat, the Honey Bee, and it is only 43 pounds but is only 12 1/2 feet long. Just as wide and very stable like the Bumbl Bee. Fully glassed inside and out with the same high seat. My next build will be this boat. I gave (rather, am giving) the Bumble Bee to my oldest son cause he's much younger and don't mind the weight.
http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee56 ... YS%20BOAT/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bowgarguide]

Jimmy
I built the Laker 13 ,I weigh 225 ,personaly I dont think it would fit the build for you.,It is a great little boat ,I just gave it to one of my granddaughters and she paddles the heck out of it . She weighs 110.
Take this with a grain of salt and it is strictly my opion, after building several short boats and starting off in a 9.5 plastic boat. I will say I wont have a boat any shorter than 15 ft ,they track better ,more stable, and the other 3 ft of boat isnt even noticeable loading and unloading. You can carry more gear, have a narrower and more efficient boat with the same stability.
Ron

[jimmy_b_777]

Preacher,
What's the weight capacity on the honey bee? What is are the advantages/disadvantages of the asymmetrical hull? I assume it has something to do with the fluid dynamics and weight placement, or maybe just looks. Would you see any problem with just shortening the bumble bee design just enough to make the sides fit on the two panels?

[jimmy_b_777]

Ron,
Glad to hear from someone who has built the laker. The 15ft. limit is what I've been leaning towards. My goal here is to get on the water as cheaply as possible. Of course, I don't want to sacrifice quality and water-worthiness for the sake of a few dollars. Hopefully I can go the luan route and find some cheap fiber glass on ebay or something. So beating a dead horse here, but I'm looking for the best compromise between weight capacity, efficiency and cost.

[DarrellS]

Jimmy,
I buy all of my epoxy and fiberglass from http://www.uscomposites.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Their price are hard to beat and they have great service and products. I use the 2:1 slow system.

[preacher]

Jimmy,
I buy all of my epoxy and fiberglass from http://www.uscomposites.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Their price are hard to beat and they have great service and products. I use the 2:1 slow system.

X2 on everything

[preacher]

Preacher,
What's the weight capacity on the honey bee? What is are the advantages/disadvantages of the asymmetrical hull? I assume it has something to do with the fluid dynamics and weight placement, or maybe just looks. Would you see any problem with just shortening the bumble bee design just enough to make the sides fit on the two panels?

You're talking to a preacher not Gerald

I really don't know all the ins and outs but it seemed reasonable to me that keeping as much width on the bottom as possible would give better stability and also increase the payload plus move the load toward the rear. My brother and I are similar sized LARGE BODIED men (I'm just better lookin )

Yeah, that's what I did, shortened the Bumble Bee. I do think the asymmetric design gives the boat better stability than just shortening the Bumble Bee design. JMHO

Weight capacity, my 275 or his 275 didn't phase it. Jerry loaded the thing one day with everything except a refrigerator and the thing did great. I would guess easily 400 - 450 pounds to keep a reasonable freeboard.

Hope this helps.