Standing and fishing

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JW FunGuy
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Standing and fishing

Post by JW FunGuy »

Hey Y’all! I’ve been silently in the background for over a year now since I had a series of back surgeries ending with a lumbar fusion. My doc at one time said that kayaking would probably be the last thing I can do but I think I’m ready to give it a try. I remember before that after hours in the boat I just had to stand up, so I would get out on mud etc just to do so. I’m thinking now that maybe I should get a kayak I can standup in whenever I feel the need.I know all the arguments about speed, weight, maneuverability and all, but what I’m wondering about is how many of you actually stand up while fishing? Or looking for fish? I enjoy paddling so I won’t be getting a pedal power boat if that makes a difference. Also I prefer fly fishing but carry spin gear when fly isn’t possible.
If none of this works I may just have to join the solo skiff group :(
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Neumie
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by Neumie »

Have you considered a paddle board with an optional high seat. Maybe something like a Diablo Amigo, Crescent Sup+, or Kaku Voodoo. I obviously don't know your level of discomfort, but I think a stable kayak or SUP with an elevated seat to allow you have more knees bent would help quite a bit.
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savoltage
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by savoltage »

I stand in my Shearwater 125 all the time. Nice to be able to stretch the legs and back.
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motoyak
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by motoyak »

Some can stand in a kayak, some can not. It really depends upon your balance. Personally, I could never feel comfortable standing fishing, even in a Ultimate 14 which is really a catamaran.
Conversely, I had no issues standing in my flat bottom jon boats abet the 12x36" was a little spooky, the 14x48" , 15x52" and 16 x60" were a breeze.
With a fused back, I'd be very leery of standing. Any quick unsuspected movement could cause me to undo all the work the surgeon fixed in a heartbeat. I, like you, routinely get out on a reef or shoreline every few hours and that suits me just fine.
All my current kayaks have elevated seats that help a lot. On rare occasions that I can't get out to stand, kneeling on the deck works well for stretching.
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by Duster_BB »

Be careful, my pops has a fused spine from slipped/crushed disk. Seeing the pain he was in, I wouldn't risk standing up in a kayak to be completely frank.
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by Kayak Kid »

My 2 cents:
If you enjoy paddling, a wide kayak will turn you off, and most likely be very unkind to your back. A small, light, aluminium skiff with a two hp electric start motor on the stern, and an electric motor on the bow would, in my opinion, offer a more suitable stand up fly casting platform, while offering no danger to your back.
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by SWFinatic »

You might consider a Wilderness Ride 135. Standable for most and still paddles pretty well for a kayak you can stand in. You'll have to find one used since Wilderness stopped making them.

I actually don't stand up to fish for me in the shallow water back lakes sure I can see this fish better standing but that works both ways. I can get closer to fish sitting down then standing up. When I need to stretch the legs and back I get out and stand up for a few.
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karstopo
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by karstopo »

95% + of the fly fishing I do when in the kayak is while standing in my WS Commander 140. Never have I had an unplanned exit from this kayak. I’m definitely not a trapeze artist, gymnast or anything like that. Too bad that model has been long since discontinued.

If I couldn’t stand for whatever reason in the kayak to scout water and cast, I’m not sure I’d continue to kayak fish. I stand in boats when I fish also, standing or wading feels natural and comfortable to me when fishing, sitting long uninterrupted periods, not so much, hurts my old hips and lower back.

Another thing great about that kayak besides being super stable is there really isn’t very much forward of my feet to snag loose fly line. I fish barefoot, summer, fall,winter, or spring, and can then feel if my feet are stepping on the line. I carry generally two or three fly rods and a low profile baitcasting rig and strip the loose fly on top of the other one or two fly rods.

Of course, there’s lots of ways to skin this cat called fishing and others get it done in other ways, but, I do love to be elevated to see what’s ahead and to the sides as soon as possible to then make my plan for ambush. Or, I’ll drift through promising water while standing and casting, maybe I’ll see some fish sign to respond to. Even when I’m staked out on a fish holding structure and casting to the same spot repeatedly, I prefer to stand when doing that.

I’ll sit on the bench seat to paddle longer distances and will sit on the bench or more likely side saddle if somehow the wind/current mix isn’t favorable for standing. Hang my legs over the sides and fish that way, but is usually with the baitcasting rig.

The Commander does not have a raised deck like most self bailing SOT kayaks and is in fact not a SOT, self bailing kayak. It is an open plan SINK, with a lower profile than many SOT types so that the wind doesn’t blow it around so much, as if it were a canoe.

The CG is very low with the hull design, the feet are actually situated slightly below the water line as they rest in the hull indents.

Lower the CG, more stability, all other things being equal.
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JW FunGuy
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by JW FunGuy »

Thanks everyone. I knew I would get replies from all across the board. For what is is worth, I was a gymnast most of my life up to college and some coaching afterwards so balance usually is not an issue. I had a fusion in my neck about 30 years ago (probably landed on my head one too many times) so I know the pitfalls. Despite sitting on my rear for the last year I’m still in pretty good shape and starting to get back on my road bike, been fly fishing the Guad some the last 6 months so I’m not dead yet! But I do forget I’m 68…
I guess I just wanted to know if I should pursue a stand-able kayak and if anyone actually stands to fish. Thanks karstopo for your i in-depth viewpoint.
I have a WS Tarpon 120 and I’m looking at a Crescent CK1 maybe a Crew (anyone using one of those?) I’m hoping I can demo one from TG Canoe sometime to see if it does kill me
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motoyak
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by motoyak »

My buddy Hilltopper moved from a T120 to a motorized Bonafide SS127 Ultimate. He is an avid fly guy and did so fairly well in the T120. He loves he Boni and still flys from the seated position even though he could dance a jig in the new one. He got his from TG. Motor yaks are the ultimate fishing machines IMHO
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by mwatson71 »

I have been kayak fishing for roughly 15 years and have never on e felt the need or urge to stand in any of my kayaks. Not that I probably couldn’t as I too was a D1 gymnast with pretty good balance still. I just like sitting low, pedaling or paddling along, and trying to catch a fish every once in a while. I will get out and wade on occasion or stand along a grassline if the ground isn’t too squishy.
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Ron Mc
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by Ron Mc »

Josh sight fished a couple of small reds standing on his Stealth 15 this day.
It was an 18-kt blow, and having the drift sock out limited the boat pitch freedom to some extent.
Not me.

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motoyak
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by motoyak »

Haha, yes, hes a fishing machine in his own right. I stood in my Search13 for about 15 seconds before tipping. Repeat my prior post, some can, some can not :lol: 8)
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karstopo
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by karstopo »

I can’t believe there are two actual gymnasts on one thread on TKF.

I always figure I widen the advantage over the fish by being elevated, this would be in sight fishing. Scan the water out some distance and then plan the approach. Most technical poling skiffs have elevated platforms on the stern for poling and seeing fish out at some distance and often an elevated casting platform up on the bow. If being elevated is so bad and risks being seen by the fish first, why would those skiffs have elevated areas? I fish off the bow of my friend’s Blue Wave and that’s even more elevated than my kayak and the water that you can see from the deck of the boat.

For me, casting the fly rod is infinitely easier whilst standing.

Point A to point B, anchor up, throw out some shrimp on a hook type of fishing, yes, why bother with standing. You are fishing a structure and allowing the fish to come to your bait. Or if it is flat calm and the water very clear, maybe keeping low is the better idea. The last time I fish those kind of conditions was the day before never. It just doesn’t happen for me. No wind, clear water days.

I like to fish structure, the kind where I can pretty much set up where I want within reason and then make the same casts and presentations to the same structure repeatedly. It could be either lures or flies. Really if that’s the drill, it doesn’t matter, fish either standing or sitting whatever is most comfortable. This is the most productive fishing I’ve ever done. The fish are on some structure and as long as you hit your spot and the presentation is good, it can be a fish about every cast.

Fish how you want, right, it’s about having fun and part of the fun is picking up some fish, so whatever way you’ve figured out that does that is a good way.

Anyway, good to see some more lively threads here on TKF. I’m planning to get out on the water this weekend, likely in the kayak because none of my boat owning buddies have yet called me to invite me on their boats! These days summertime fishing, I’m thinking more about how to avoid the power boat crowd if I’m going out in the kayak than any other consideration. I think about going up some little bayou, but then I know there will likely be 8 or 10 power boats in there with me. My usual power boat avoidance plan involves a lot of exposed oyster reef. Fiberglass gel coat and oyster bars don’t mix well.
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shoffer
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by shoffer »

I have a disc issue in my back, and I have to stand sometimes to alleviate pain in the legs. I only need to do so for about 3-5 minutes once during the trip, and that usu. gets it done. I have had several kayaks, some conducive to standing and some not. Hobie Revo and Perception Prism models were not conducive to standing. But my other Hobies have been, for the most part. Here's my overall thought.

My Hobie Outback 2013 - did not feel comfortable standing in it. Would bail out on a shoreline and walk a bit if needed to stretch the back.

My Hobie Outback 2018 - I stand in this all the time, but usually only when the water and wind are fairly calm. I use the Mirage Drive foot pedals to pull my ass up out of the seat and use them for balance when sitting back down.

Outback 2021 - rented one for a week once and absolutely loved it. I could stand in this for 30 minutes if I wanted to. The three extra inches of width made all the difference. If I was you, this is the boat I'd get - the 2022 version if you can afford it (as the 2019 hulls have had an issue with small cracks in the scupper holes). You can still paddle if that is what you want to do, but the Mirage drive is really the best part of these kayaks. These newer ones weigh 40 lbs more than their earlier 2009-13 models though, so keep that in mind when transporting, loading and unloading.
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by Kitsune »

I have fished out of several different paddle kayaks over the years. I can stand up in a OK Frenzy, did it plenty of times. I now use a 11ft OK Caper, I stand up in it all the time. I wouldn't purchase a kayak I can't stand up in, which is few. I really enjoy standing and fishing from my kayak. It loosens up my back, stretches the legs, one can see further, and it allows one to change lure retrieval positions(topwater). Honestly, I would worry less about speed, tracking, and such if you cannot stand. Most people I see in peddle kayaks are closer to launch than I. This will not be popular, but I wouldn't listen to your doctor on these things. I also wouldn't live in a bubble.I would suggest getting physically stronger, maybe lose weight, or get a kayak with more width. The two biggest reasons people cannot standup in a kayak is strength/balance and too much weight. The change in center of gravity is too much, if you weight too much. You can also consider wade fishing when tired. Whenever on the water fishing for long periods of time, no matter what boat you are in, the lower back will be used. :dance:
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by safarigene »

For standing I love my Kaku Voodoo. Wide open flat deck and the chair sits up much higher than other kayaks. You can also sit on the back of the chair as well, which is pretty close to standing.
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karstopo
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by karstopo »

That Voodoo looks great.
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JW FunGuy
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by JW FunGuy »

safarigene wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 pm For standing I love my Kaku Voodoo. Wide open flat deck and the chair sits up much higher than other kayaks. You can also sit on the back of the chair as well, which is pretty close to standing.
I looked at one of those at an ACK demo. I wondered how they paddled in chop and swells in the bays. And had concerns about paddling in the wind sitting that high.
How does it do?
loonycamp
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by loonycamp »

I enjoy standing while fishing in the marsh. You can pop you head up to decide which back lake has the fish. Its also fun to cast over grass while standing rather than paddle around the bend, etc.
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by safarigene »

As far as chop and swells in the bay, I have no experience. Mine has all been on the lake and river locally. I don't see that much difference in the wind pushing me around any more than the Vibe I also have.
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by SWFinatic »

JW FunGuy wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:51 am
safarigene wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 pm For standing I love my Kaku Voodoo. Wide open flat deck and the chair sits up much higher than other kayaks. You can also sit on the back of the chair as well, which is pretty close to standing.
I looked at one of those at an ACK demo. I wondered how they paddled in chop and swells in the bays. And had concerns about paddling in the wind sitting that high.
How does it do?
Only thing I have to compare this to is an inflatable SUP board using a small cooler for a seat. I know inflatables are much more wind sensitive than a rotomolded heavier board however I have still paddled my board in some small chop and it reminded me of trying to paddle my 38" wide Pro Angler 14 in the wind and small chop. Again this is on an inflatable but the one time I did try to paddle it in some small chop I was in water less than 2 feet and I literally go off and walked and pulled the board behind me. Don't think a rotomolded board would be quite as bad but still not something I would consider for paddling across a bay.
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JW FunGuy
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by JW FunGuy »

Well I didn’t plan on this topic being about Kayak but I guess it all hand in hand. And I get it, if you can stand and fish you do (maybe just occasionally) and if you can’t, you don’t.
I have always joked that what I want is a kayak that is fast, stable enough to stand up, capable of river running and can hold up in the salt. Dealers and reps usually get a laugh out of that. But I found it! It does exist! Now I just have to win the lottery.
https://apexwatercraft.com/products/
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by SWFinatic »

:lol: . I think even if money was not a factor I still would pass on this one. Sounds like there are people who evidently are buying it if it's still available.
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karstopo
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Re: Standing and fishing

Post by karstopo »

The problem I see with skiffs is managing it all solo. So when I’m out in the kayak stalking fish while standing, the general thing that happens is I see a fish up ahead someplace and then try to determine an ambush spot. That generally means I’m paddling or pushing my way into position and either staking out (preferred) or free floating for the upcoming shot.

The transition is usually not so bad in the Commander. Staking out is pretty quick and quiet if it is mud. Otherwise, I’ll free float over shell or hard packed sand. Pick up the rod, line is already out from the reel, make the shot.

Maybe it is just as simple in a very small skiff. Seems like some of these small skiffs work much better with two people. One to push, one to cast.

But, some organization and a rapid transition from positioning to the shot is surely needed either way. There generally can’t be very much time between getting into position to making the actual cast. A person won’t generally have the luxury of time to untangle this, reach for that, position stripping baskets, fiddle around to anchor or set down and be deliberate securing push poles.

I’ve fished a little from a Gheenoe and see that as much harder to pull off solo for sight fishing in skinny water than the Commander kayak.

But, there are places that have the depth needed to operate an electric motor and still get within range to sight fish. The stable skiff or boat with a good deck and rigged with i pilot type of electric motor system is much easier to deal with than a kayak in those places.

I really don’t know how easy the solo skiff is to manage solo or if there are other potential easy to handle micro skiffs that make solo.

I’m pretty sure people figure it out. But, when sight fishing, there’s no disorganization or fiddle farting or being a slow poke allowed. Time is of the essence. I think this characteristic of sight fishing with fly gear frustrates the novice. By the time they get their act together, the opportunity is lost.

If someone, a guide or friend, is pushing the boat around for you, fine, then the fisherman can focus solely on the shot, but fishing solo, there isn’t that opportunity. The fisherman has to be two in one, navigator or pilot and then fisherman and do the transition quietly and quickly.
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